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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 16:41:14 GMT -6
I agree Eddie, I'd much rather route on a table than hand held. I finally got one of those Infinity router bits that has a bearing top and bottom. So you cut one way with the grain and then flip it over and cut the rest with the grain as well. Just have to adjust the bearing between the two operations. That doesn't mean it won't still grab it right out of your hands. Not me, but I've seen it happen. I have looked into those bits. I may try one out at some point. Since I put my hand though a router once a long time ago, I am super cautious of using a router. If I can, I will do everything, not use them for everything. I see it a lot on YouTube, where people will do the sides of a body and bam! Tear out! Ouch!
I seen one guy have a bad tear out, then instead of trying to glue in a piece of wood to make the repair, he used bondo. That bondo wound up so thick, I doubt it will still be there later on in that guitar's life.
Not a fan of Bondo on a guitar. Heck, I'm not a fan of it on cars. It is not the way to do things.
EB
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 16:42:06 GMT -6
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Post by dnic on Sept 16, 2022 19:56:15 GMT -6
I've seen bondo used by painters on bent metal doors and even punctured hollow doors. As long as it has something to bite into it will stay put. Same for wood filler. Of course I'm talking paint grade stuff. You can never get filler to match stain no matter what the product label says.
Good video Eddie! My shop is in a state of total upheaval. I was trying to give it a major clean and organize when I decided to add a spray booth.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 7:03:06 GMT -6
I've seen bondo used by painters on bent metal doors and even punctured hollow doors. As long as it has something to bite into it will stay put. Same for wood filler. Of course I'm talking paint grade stuff. You can never get filler to match stain no matter what the product label says. Good video Eddie! My shop is in a state of total upheaval. I was trying to give it a major clean and organize when I decided to add a spray booth. In the world of bondo... less is more. Too many use way too much of it when making a fill. Over a 1/4" fill is way too much. I have seen people use it up to 2" thick. Never use bondo for anything if one has to fill in that thick. Fix it first! If or when I used bondo in my cars, it was way less than a 1/4" thick. I learned how to metal work, and metal working is a lost art today. Much like wood fillers. I would never use a wood filler to fill in big tear outs, nor would I use bondo on any of my builds. Not going to happen. Filler of any kind is for lazy people wanting a fast fix.
Thanks for the comps, Dane. I have liked my work space to be clean. I always take the time to clean up after doing something. I was that way in my print shop and other print shops I worked in. They were always clean. But that's me. LOL!
EB
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Post by antares on Sept 17, 2022 9:26:19 GMT -6
After reading all you guys referencing Bondo, I had to look it up, but it was as I expected the same product as we used to use called Plastic Padding. In later years we went over to using "FEW" which is an acronym for "Fine Elastic White" and we found it was superior to Plastic Padding in pretty much every respect. It didn't crack and you could sand it in a few minutes, but morover it remained imperceptibly flexible once set hard, and everything moves slightly in an airplane- it's built into the design. So win win then! The paint shop used it extensively for filling the fibreglass skins of the Nomex panels prior to painting. There is no way you could prep. a fibreglass skin other than use some kind of filler. Sand all you like with whatever grits you choose. Also, the decor trimmers had to use it, particularly on curved surfaces because the Tedlar trim became so thin that it wouldn't hide the strands on the surface of the fibreglass skin, and the nature of the honeycomb Nomex core left ridges in the skins dependent upon which direction it was curved. Sand out those ridges and the board would disintegrate, or at least fail to meet its design stresses. Still 'n' all- what you say holds true; it's a blunt weapon to disguise poor attention to important details.
でつ e&oe ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 12:15:27 GMT -6
After reading all you guys referencing Bondo, I had to look it up, but it was as I expected the same product as we used to use called Plastic Padding. In later years we went over to using "FEW" which is an acronym for "Fine Elastic White" and we found it was superior to Plastic Padding in pretty much every respect. It didn't crack and you could sand it in a few minutes, but morover it remained imperceptibly flexible once set hard, and everything moves slightly in an airplane- it's built into the design. So win win then! The paint shop used it extensively for filling the fibreglass skins of the Nomex panels prior to painting. There is no way you could prep. a fibreglass skin other than use some kind of filler. Sand all you like with whatever grits you choose. Also, the decor trimmers had to use it, particularly on curved surfaces because the Tedlar trim became so thin that it wouldn't hide the strands on the surface of the fibreglass skin, and the nature of the honeycomb Nomex core left ridges in the skins dependent upon which direction it was curved. Sand out those ridges and the board would disintegrate, or at least fail to meet its design stresses. Still 'n' all- what you say holds true; it's a blunt weapon to disguise poor attention to important details. でつ e&oe ...When I worked with fiberglass, I used epoxy to fill or make the surface smooth. I never used Bondo on it. I did right before I stopped building cars use some stuff called "all metal" That was some amazing stuff. It would cure as hard as the steel I would put it on. It would not crack or chip off like Bondo would. Again, I never filled more than a 1/4" thick. Any Filler is not a fix for poor craftsmanship.
I would never tell anyone to use Bondo on any guitar. There are a few videos of people who do. For me, I would never let any of them build or work on any guitar. Fix it right, or stop making guitars.
Sorry, I am not a Bondo person. I remember a guy who did a lot of body work to his car. He filled dents with the stuff. Did not pull the dents out. He even put the bondo over paint. He painted the car and everything looked super good for about a year. Then all that body work he did started cracking and falling out. What a waste of time and effort. He had to do the car all over again. Only this time he took to an auto body shop. It wound up costing him a lot of money to get the car fixed. I don't know what the body shop did to fix the car, or if they too wound up using Bondo. It took them like 6 months to get that car looking like a show car. It was a 68 Mustang, fast back. After all that, he wound up selling the car a few months after he took it home.
Back in my day of cars, I could fix or replace panels without any fillers and no one could ever tell or see the fix. I used to clear coat my work to show off my skills. Like I said, it's a lost art. Even on the TV shows you see them way over use Bondo. All because they do not know how to do metal work. I miss that part of building" Kustom" cars. Nothing like shaping metal and welding it into a car to the point that it's art work on wheels.
Wood working of making guitars is another ball game to me. Wood does not bend, is as forgiving as metal. It is also harder to deal with when putting a finish on it. Metal is a lot easier to put a finish on to me. Wood has to be prepped in a lot more steps than metal. LOL!
EB
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 13:50:27 GMT -6
Part 11 The fret board goes on the neck blank.
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Post by dnic on Sept 18, 2022 16:22:28 GMT -6
This was a good vid Eddie. Your almost at 100 subs. That's great!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2022 9:32:41 GMT -6
Here is something I came up with today.
I made me some dot inlays out of the binding. I have one of the small hole saws for my drill press. I need to clean up and drill the holes in the fret board.
EB
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Post by dnic on Sept 19, 2022 9:41:31 GMT -6
Very cool Eddie!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2022 15:45:41 GMT -6
I have them in. I'll be doing another video on it. I used acid tone to put them in. Worked out great! I need to do a little filling. I'll use some CA Glue for that.
EB
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2022 13:33:41 GMT -6
I have been busy the last two days. Here part 12.
I know I say this in the video... but that ebony of some of the hardest wood I ever used. It's even harder than the wood I used on my last build with the leather top on it. EB
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Post by antares on Sept 21, 2022 2:38:51 GMT -6
Nice attention to detail Eddie. Did you have to use a fret slotting saw blade of a size specifically to match the fret tang you chose?
All my bound neck Japanese Yamahas have the crown laying over the binding in the way you have notched away the tangs, but they are finished off, radiused over and polished maybe 10 thou' away from the edge which means the Japanese must have prepared each fret individually before inserting them. Why do you think they would go to such lengths? It's a mystery to me. It does seem to serve as an indicator as to whether the neck has been refretted though.
でつ e&oe ...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 6:16:49 GMT -6
Nice attention to detail Eddie. Did you have to use a fret slotting saw blade of a size specifically to match the fret tang you chose? All my bound neck Japanese Yamahas have the crown laying over the binding in the way you gave notched away the tangs, but they are finished off, radiused over and polished maybe 10 thou' away from the edge which means the Japanese must have prepared each fret individually before inserting them. Why do you think they would go to such lengths? It's a mystery to me. It does seem to serve as an indicator as to whether the neck has been refretted though. でつ e&oe ...I started to say something about the fret ends. Yes, I could have pre sanded the ends as I put the frets in. I have done that before. But it takes so much time. Even then, for me, I still run the chance I would not get them centered, and one end would still be off. LOL!
Some will do the 45% angle on bound fret boards to give it that look like the fret have been pre sanded at the ends. But I'll do my 35% end angle. That is what I like. Once I can find my file, I use for that. HA!
EB
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Post by dnic on Sept 21, 2022 9:35:25 GMT -6
I think Steve might be onto something about saw size. If all things remained as usual, same saws same fret wire then the saws may be so dull that they didn't cut the slot wide enough. Or if you sourced the wire from someone you don't normally use it could be a wider tang. Me personally, unless I plan to CA my frets in place I would not shorten the tangs. I bought a cute little slot cleaning saw which just also happens to be a pain to use. But it gets the job done.I decided to titebond glue the last frets I installed in the Route 66 neck. That worked out ok. Although I am not a no fret slot space kind of whacko. There are plenty Holy Grail LPs out there with no glue in the slots and they seem to have worked out OK. Same for old Fender and everybody else back in the day. No glue in slots. I have always "spot welded" the fret ends with CA just as a precaution.
I seriously doubt that Yami got special sized frets installed. I have seen and have do on bound boards a filing technique that champers the fret ends back into the binding a bit which puts the end of the fret slightly inside the binding line. I did just see a video yesterday of an older couple that have been building guitars together for 40 years in Japan. And they did use precut to fit frets. So maybe it's not uncommon in Japan. Just spit balling here.
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