Can't get neck p/up to stop buzzing

[rcuda]

Here's the problem. My guitar was buzzing really badly, but most notably when you touch the neck pickup with your hand.
I took my Saga LP apart yesterday and got rid of those crappy snap together connectors. I soldered and heat shrink wrapped all of the connections. I could not for the life of me get the solder to take to bridge. I tried roughing it up with a mill file to get better adhesion, but to no avail. Right now the wire is sitting flush with the ferrule in the body cavity, so I am getting connectivity to the bridge, but I wanted it done right. I also shielded the backs of the covers with some heavy duty aluminum foil. Both of which seem to have made a tremendous difference. Everything is now shielded and properly grounded. In fact, now that I've grounded the bridge (my Saga kit was missing the wire for it when it arrived...) if you are touching the strings when you touch the neck pickup, it will not buzz. but you take your hand off the strings and it makes a horrible screeching noise.

Any thoughts on this?

[cknowles]

I had the exact same problem with my LP neck pickup. It was quiet until I touched the neck pickup then it made a loud buzz. Same sound as if I had grapped the tip of the cable from the amp in fact.

In my case the neck pickup was wired backwards (Black hot, white ground). you can check with a multimeter.
The white wire is supposed to be the hot lead and the black wire is supposed to be grounded to the pickup case. My bridge pickup checked out with black being ground and white hot.

Try reversing and see how it sounds.

I also had a devil of a time soldering the ground to the bridge ferule.

If you're using a 15 watt soldering iron, you won't get the ferule hot enough for the solder to take.
I had better luck at the bottom edge of it, I sanded through the chrome and using fine electronics solder from radio shack, along with my 150 watt soldering gun, was able to get it to take. I've read on other forums that the mechanical connection you already have, is adequate.

Chris

[rcuda]

Thanks for the info. I'll check the leads on the neck pickup. I actually plan to swap the neck pickup with the bridge because when I checked them for resistance, I found the neck pickup to actually be a bit hotter than the bridge. Very unusual. It's supposed to be the other way around. If the leads are reversed that certainly would explain the buzzing. And yes, the buzzing is EXACTLY the sound made when you touch the tip of the cord. I guess you get what you pay for with these kits.

[cknowles]

You're lucky, my neck and bridge pickup were exactly the same value.
I always thought the bridge to be a bit weak.

I replaced them with a pair of Vintage '59's from Guitar Fetish along with the pots and really like the new sound. These are much better matched. Were I to do it again I'd switch out the Pots first and see how it plays.

[rcuda]

Okay, here's the scoop. I swapped the leads, no change. to further investigate, I took the pickups out and dismantled them to do a compare and contrast. Apparently the solder job on the neck pickup was so poor that it wasn't properly grounded to the case of the pickup. I ended up breaking the pickup in an attempt to repair it. I think that the coils are broken somewhere inside. Only one thing to do now: rewind the pickup.
But since I don't currently have the wherewithall to do so, I'm just going to buy another pickup for the time being.
Oddly, the impedance on the neck pickup was 8.8k ohms, whereas the bridge was 8.3. What's up with that?

[GuitarAttack Forum]

There are some wide variances in Saga pickups. I've repaired several, and they are all a little different.

As far as the ohms reading on pickups, it is only one component of how it will sound in the guitar. Some of my besting sounding PAFs had the lowest reading.

Good luck,
John

[cknowles]

I've still got the 2 pickups from my Saga.
They're your's if you want them we can discuss pricing offline.

[rcuda]

I am not disputing the fact that ohms of impedance is not the main deciding factor in how "good" a guitar pickup sounds. But one thing is for sure: the new Duncan Detonator (16.8k ohms!!!) I've installed is WAAYYYY hotter. I swapped the Saga bridge pickup to the neck and put the Detonator into the bridge. It completely redefined the sound of my guitar. I used to use unbelievable amounts of compression to approximate sustain and attack, but with the new pickup, I had to dial in my amp settings all over again. Even on clean channel it was howling with feedback. The super hot ceramic magnet gives it a nice bright punchy attack, and the overwound coils offer a nice fat bottom end. Unfortunately, compared to the bridge the neck pickup is relatively bland. Oh well.

[cknowles]

I was reading recently in my search for new Pickups for my LP, that Gibson had tried more windings in their pickups creating a greater impedance in the 1950's. The problem for them at the time was that these "hotter" pickups tended to cause the pre-amp circuitry to clip making unpleasant distortion. How quickly times changed, by the end of the decade this same distortion became highly sought after.

Tone is such a personal thing. I deliberately shied away from pickups over 8.5k as I was looking for a dark yet clean sound. I also tend to play using the neck pickup more than the bridge. I play mostly blues, and folk/country style, often plugged into the P.A. system.

Again, personal preference. I'm glad you are pleased with that SD pickup. Any plans to swap the neck pup?

[rcuda]

I really dig the heavy bright sound of the Detonator (it's like the Seymor Duncan Invader's slightly less disgruntled younger sibling). I'll probably go with another one in the neck. It has a cutting attack and unbelievable sustain. I've tried playing with Invaders before, and while they're awesome for heavy metal, you can't get a clean tone out of them to save your life! It causes that "squishing" noise when you pluck the strings. It's a pretty cool sound when played through a tube amp, but when you're using a small solid state combo it sounds, well... ...awful. It's like the amp makes a flatulating noise. While I love metal, I would like a little more versatility from my axe. I've played guitars with S.D. Pearly Gates and Air Norton's in the neck, both of which I really like the tone of, but I can't justify spending more on a pickup than I did on the guitar. Maybe if they make a budget model of either I'll consider it.
The way the guitar sounded with the saga pickups, I really liked the tone of the middle position (neck and bridge together). It had a nice open "vowel" like sound, but I didn't care for the muddy neck position or the weak bridge position. But now the difference in tones between the pickups has rendered my middle position all by useless. It's like the lower impedance of the neck p/up is canceling out the cool nuances of the bridge, and the bridge's bright attack cancels out the warmth of the neck and I just end up with a flat, boring tone.
You're right, tone is such a personal thing. I remember back when I first started playing I didn't know the difference between a single coil and a humbucker, and now I could go on for days about tone this, or tone that! I mean, we both have the same guitar, but my biggest gripe about the pickups is that they're too dark and clean! I play a lot of heavy metal, and I go for that bright and heavy tone. I play with a heavy mid range scoop and about as much gain as I can pile on... However, I am also a big fan of 60's and 70's rock and I dig the slightly overdriven cleaner tones of players like David Gilmore. One of the reasons I'm planning on coil tapping my guitar. I just haven't gotten around to buying new pots, caps and wire.
That's probably one of the best features of the pickup: it's got 4 leads! No need to dismantle the pickup.

[cknowles]

I wired my volume pots using SD's optional wiring diagram, in the center position both volumes and tones operate independently. This allows me more flexibility to blend both pickups. When I want a bit brighter tone I switch to the middle and bring the bridge pickup up
until that vowel (excellent description!) sound starts to appear.

I also have a Dightech RP-250 that gives me too much variety as well.

If you want some more fun, try swapping the Capacitors around a bit.
I tried .022 and .047 mfd caps. The difference is noticeable. I'm now working on a switch which will allow me to go back and forth between bright and dark.

I'm betting if we ever got together, even though we have the same guitar's, the sound from each one would be as individual as our fingerprints. I never would have played around with the electronics as much if I'd spent the same $$ on an Epiphone LP or SG. Now I'm having just too much fun!

[rcuda]

I don't particularly care for the way that Saga wired it. It doesn't make sense to wire the pickups in a series circuit when they're separated by the three way toggle. And the stock pots and caps are TRASH. There is no difference between two and ten, and no difference between zero and two, and the tone knobs don't really do anything.

I'm planning on doing this (forgive the poor quality rudimentary ascii diagram):

Neck P/U
(000000) humbuckingmode-----(250k DP/DT Vol.) -----(.047 cap) (500k Tone)\
(000000) single coil mode-------/ \
\
}3way toggle
Bridge P/U /
(000000) single coil mode-------\ /
(000000) humbuckingmode-----(250k DP/DT Vol.) -----(.047 cap) (500k Tone) /

Everything will be wired directly to the sleeve/sleeve to ground, and the hot lead from the switch goes to the tip on the output.

I love that so called "vowel" tone in the middle. It's almost like a halfway open crybaby wah, but without rolling off all the highs and lows. It's an awesome tone. It's like the guitar is opening up to say "aaah". lol

[cknowles]

Without the coil tapping, mine is wired much like your diagram, except I put 500K volume and 250K for the tones. Would it make more sense to reverse them? 250K for volume and 500K for tone?

[rcuda]

it was my understanding that it's standard practice to use 500k for single coils, 250k for humbuckers and 25k for active pickups/piezo/microphone. I may be wrong. But I wanted the 250k in the vol because it won't make a huge difference in either humbucking or single coil mode (I usually play with the volume all the way up). Volume is volume. But I wanted the 500k pots for the tone because of the wider frequency sweep. I think that .042 caps are going to allow me to roll off the highs without muddying my tone. We'll see.

[cknowles]

I've pulled wiring diagrams from many locations.
There seems to be several standards to choose from.

Basically the rule of thumb once you understand the concepts is to do what sounds best to your own ear.