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Post by antares on Jun 26, 2021 1:34:05 GMT -6
Sounds like a really great find Eddie. Storage for fine timber can be a little problematic though, especially where you are right now?
e&oe ...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 11:01:47 GMT -6
Sounds like a really great find Eddie. Storage for fine timber can be a little problematic though, especially where you are right now? e&oe ...Going to use my closet in my guitar room. It free form the humidity. Should be a good place to store the wood. I have wood In there now. Plus I'll be buying a little at a time. But from the wood samples I got to see at this guys place. Looks like some really nice woods.
So, it will be fun to go and see all of the woods at this place. May end up going sooner than I thought. LOL! EB
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2021 14:20:07 GMT -6
Hey Dane, I ordered me a box of that sand paper. I hope I luck out like you did. LOL! EB
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Post by dnic on Aug 11, 2021 17:58:37 GMT -6
Hey Dane, I ordered me a box of that sand paper. I hope I luck out like you did. LOL! EB
I hope so to Eddie. I got really great combination of grits.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 17:48:29 GMT -6
Well here is something that keeps bugging me.
Can someone please explain to me, why a speaker cab would be worth as much as a combo Tube amp? It makes no since to me, why a speaker box with only a speaker in it would be worth as much as a whole amp!
Here where I live they are going from $400 to way over $600. For cabs with a 12" speaker in them. WOW! Maybe I'll start making 12" speaker cabs... WOW!
EB
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Post by dnic on Aug 12, 2021 20:59:45 GMT -6
Totally out of the loop on this one. Not in the market and haven't looked in years. But sounds crazy. Must have something to do with what speaker it's loaded with.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 9:56:11 GMT -6
Totally out of the loop on this one. Not in the market and haven't looked in years. But sounds crazy. Must have something to do with what speaker it's loaded with. That is what I thought (about the speaker. But it seems it does not matter. Only reason I was looking, someone had one on the fB marketplace and I thought it was an amp because it the title all said was tweed amp. But when I opened up the ad it was for a speaker cab. So the price to me was over the top. So, I look up others in FB marketplace only to find the same thing. I can buy the whole amp cheaper in some cases.
I know places like MOJO tone sells amp cabs and speaker cabs. But, I don't know how much they are. But it seems to me like they sell them for a lot as well. But they are brand new. Not used. Oh I know it has to be the patina! LOL! EB
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Post by GuitarAttack Forum on Aug 13, 2021 11:47:26 GMT -6
Totally out of the loop on this one. Not in the market and haven't looked in years. But sounds crazy. Must have something to do with what speaker it's loaded with. That is what I thought (about the speaker. But it seems it does not matter. Only reason I was looking, someone had one on the fB marketplace and I thought it was an amp because it the title all said was tweed amp. But when I opened up the ad it was for a speaker cab. So the price to me was over the top. So, I look up others in FB marketplace only to find the same thing. I can buy the whole amp cheaper in some cases.
I know places like MOJO tone sells amp cabs and speaker cabs. But, I don't know how much they are. But it seems to me like they sell them for a lot as well. But they are brand new. Not used. Oh I know it has to be the patina! LOL! EB
I know some guys who build amps and cabinets. First, the theory: you make money on execution, not ideas. Everybody has good ideas; how do you monetize it in a predictable, repeatable way? They have to buy the raw speaker, build a tuned box, cover it, and make it look clean and blemish free. The amp guys will make profit on both the head and speakers...margin is greater on the speaker cab and the assumption is that the customer wants both. So, when it is time to sell just the speaker, the retail price paid doesn't look as reasonable on its own. And there is a difference in cabinets, and there is a big difference in speakers. I always advise buying an amp and speaker together because that is what the builder intended. My 2 cents, John
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Post by antares on Aug 14, 2021 5:19:41 GMT -6
About three years ago, I contracted a local shop to make a bespoke cabinet for my "HiFi" separates. It cost about the equivalent of $1400. There were obviously no loudspeakers nor any electronics. Not even any Tolex (thankfully!) Just one door, a couple of hinges, one knob/ latch and one shelf. For the money, I was adamant that there would be no laminates. They made a very good job.
Dane you've been a cabinet maker in the past. I don't know what you may have charged someone for a cabinet like that, but compare that with the price of loudspeaker cabinets? As has already been intimated, there are speaker cabs and there are speaker cabs. The work and skill going into a dovetailed loudspeaker cabinet, whilst eclipsing that of one nailed together nonetheless still has to be less than that of a piece of furniture, but I feel that it is far more significant than a float soldered PCB which may not contact human flesh until it is exposed to an un-boxing. If you're going to want to look at it every day, then it will cost. On a loudspeaker cabinet, constructional niceties might be masked by Tolex, but a reputable manufacturer will be open about what's "under the skin" in pursuit of an unique selling point (USP).
Marry that up with good quality voice coils as John said, and you have a recipe for wallet depletion. Then you have the marginal propensity to consume- what the paying public will withstand set off against incremental increases in price.
As an illustration of that, there is no way that I can equate what goes into (eg) Dane's $1000 "Roadie" guitar with an (eg) $1000 combo amp, much less an (eg) $700 cab. At the end of the day, the market decrees selling points, and no one is going to sell cheaper than necessary these days unless it is cheap stuff. There's little point being in business otherwise.
But I do take the general point about loudspeaker cabinet sticker shock, although for me it is a bit subliminal, subconscious and subjective. The trouble is, although guilty of judging others by my own standards, I suspect that we're all from an age that will stoop down to pick up a shiney nickel, a youngster would walk on by and swallow todays prices as "life".
e&oe ...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 11:04:48 GMT -6
Well, it still dumbfounds me in how a cab in some cases are worth more that a whole combo 1 12" amp. I can buy a whole Fender blues deluxe amp for $450.00 used. But to get a matching cab used will cost me more.?
The amp I built a lot of years ago now. I bough a NEW cab made of birch plywood. It cost me around $100.00 free shipping. That to me was one of my best buys. I wish now I have bought more than one. LOL! But that was just the cab. It was made as a speaker cab. I had to mod it to fit the amp. Another best thing I ever did. HA!
So, saying that I still can't see why a cab with a single speaker in it would be as much or more than a whole amp. Production cabs are not always made like I or Dane or someone else would do. I have made my own cabs in the past. I think I know a little bit in what goes into them. I even got involved in making Boom boxes back in the 90s. and those are hard to do because you have to know how to tune them to make them sound the best.
But in the cabs for speakers for guitars it's not that big of a deal. I will say that a bigger box for a guitar amp is better in the way it sounds. The one I made started out in an Ampeg amp cab. It was small. The sound was really boxed in. When I got the new cab for it the whole sound of that amp changed and for the better.
Would I paid $300 to $400 for the cab alone? NO, because I can make one cheaper. Would I pay that much if the cab had a speaker in it. NO. I also would not buy a guitar for $50,000 as well. LOL!
EB
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Post by antares on Aug 14, 2021 18:46:06 GMT -6
Eddie, you are correct about (physical) cabinet volume. Also, the larger the internal volume, the better the bass response, all other things being equal (which they seldom are.) Of course Bose work some miracles with their folded horn tuned ports, and frankly the clarity and volume from cell 'phone speakers defies belief.
Although the AC30 has two of those very efficient Celestion loudspeakers, the cabinet volume is also a part of its secret. Hard to believe that The Beatles used 32 Watts AC30s at the Shea Stadium (at least that's what I've always understood) but when I used to own one I knew only too well just how loud they are!
Here's another conundrum; ever put a 9V PP3 powered "Smokey Amp" into the back of a 4x12? It's unbelievable. It's not just the unfeasible sound pressure level produced- it's how a tiny 9 Volts battery generating perhaps 1 Watt at best manages to push four 12" cones in and out.
e&oe ...
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Post by GuitarAttack Forum on Aug 15, 2021 7:29:14 GMT -6
Steve -- The "Smokey Amp" is a great example. We actually did that same experiment, but with the two twelves in a Fender Twin. Sounded incredible! Who knew? I had a former bandmate who decided he was going to make some Marshall-like cabinets. He acquired some old, great sounding Fane speakers and he built the super structure out of marine-grade plywood. They weighed about twice as much as a normal Marshall cabinet! They sounded OK, but he was dissatisfied with them and wound up going to a small Marshall cabinet. I think the weight really changed his mind. We went through many iterations of thinking through the process of the Thiele Equation and wringing our hands about how the cab was supposed to sound. Open back? Closed back? Greenbacks or V30s? Then, yesterday, I saw this: www.guitarworld.com/news/john-mayer-epiphone-rolandAnd it made me reconsider the whole thing again! Good Luck, John
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Post by dnic on Aug 15, 2021 19:28:18 GMT -6
Very cool video, and yes even more proof it's the player more than the gear. Also thought the look on John Ms face was was very cool and supportive of the young man on guitar and also keyboard. Certainly very supportive of what they were into there at the community center.
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Post by antares on Aug 16, 2021 3:00:36 GMT -6
Yes a great video obviously captured on a mobile 'phone? What it proves to me is that the better the fingers/brain combination might be, the more of the best can be extracted from any given instrument. If it was solely in the fingers though, concert violonists would play student fiddles and not risk taking grand old instruments on the road. They don't and with good reason, although I acknowledge that it's unfair to equate a student violin with an Epiphone Lester just to throw another disposable opinion into the mix.
And anyway, John Mayer owns a Rolex Mil-Sub which is an extremely rare (and for me at least unobtanium) wristwatch! ;<D
e&oe ...
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Post by antares on Aug 16, 2021 3:08:26 GMT -6
Flip! The software just auto-corrected "w.r.i.s.t.w.a.t.c.h". Unbelievable.
Back on topic- they were some awesome tones you delivered in your last EP John. I don't recall whether you filled us in with the gear list, but under controlled recording environment it sounded superb with that slightly hollow scooped mids sound that I find almost completely elusive.
e&oe ...
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