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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 10:18:08 GMT -6
Check out this acoustic made from scrap woods! Sounds amazing!
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Post by GuitarAttack Forum on Jan 4, 2024 14:38:43 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2024 8:20:12 GMT -6
Like I was saying, I had my own home recording studio. I talked and read a lot on the art of recording all kinds of instruments. I found out over time it is just that, an art. Not too many do the same thing the same way in recording or anything else for that matter.
Over the years of having a studio, I did a lot of recording for people. That is a lot of time spent, not on just the art, but time spend on knowing how to do the mix to produce a good sounding track. For me, there was a lot more to it than putting sound on tape. It would involve hours to get the mix right. But once done, it sounded as good as anything out there.
I never think of myself as a pro in anything I do. But I do know that I know I am good at anything I put my mind to. Now, I also know that there are many that may know more about anything than I do. But just because someone has been doing tings the way they do it only means they have found what works for them.
For me, using 3 mics and kitty litter worked out great! The litter was to help with keeping the sound from bouncing off the floor. Even if you have carpet on the floor, it helps to do the litter thing. It really does!
Now, in the old recording studios I have been in, they did things better in some ways. Only because they had thousands of dollars in equipment. My studio cost me at the time around $3,000. I had to do things in ways thay didn't have to in the big studios.
But I guess we all can say we did this or that, and we know this person or that person. And how they or them said this is the only way to do it. All I can base things on is what I have done. I had a lot of fun back in the days of having my studio. Got to meet a lot of great people who loved music. It was also cool I got to sit in with some of the bands and others. For me, I was involved in so many things back then when it came to music.
I never got to record on a major label, but that should not diminish what I know when it comes to music. I worked hard on making sound, sound the best it could be. Even when I would get hired to do sound for concerts and other venues I was always able to make it sound good with the equipment provided (if I did not use my own equipment) How do I know this because people would say to me that the PA never sounded so good.
Yes, there is an art to making things sound good! And it's not pushing the mids all the way up! LOL! People way over use mids and treble if you ask me. In other words, they push them up so far that it makes it sound like they in a tin can. WOW! When one does that it becomes harsh and in a PA setting is where they start to get a lot of feed back. Everything has a balance, but again there is an art to it.
Today there does not seem to be so many using a studio for recording. I hear a lot of things done with their cell phones and plug ins into the computer. No need for a pro studio for making demos or anything else. Some people need to learn how to record their stuff, but I guess that is the way things are now.
The digital age is here and people are using it. Yet another art going to the wayside. I do miss a messy floor filled with wires/cables and the sound of the old days. For me, a lot of music has lost a lot of MOJO. It just don't have that same feel to me as it once did. When I listen to music from the 50s 60s and the 70s, it has a lot of heart that most music today does not have. The music today has become a victim of the new digital age. With so many using things to correct their voices so that they don't sing off-key, to playing through apps and no longer using amps for their guitars and so on. It all has become life less and more robotic. Heck, why even do anything live anymore?
I now see where the new way of doing concerts is going to be using AIs and big screens and projectors to make it look like a band on stage and all the music will be done by an AI.
The new tech that is out there now will only grow even bigger. It makes things too easy for us all. Have you seen the new robots that are out there? They look so life like that you will have a hard time knowing if they are human or a robot. They are being made to help in everyday life. It won't be too many more years before they will be in every home, just like a cell phone and computers. I may not be around to see it, but it will happen. Why? Because of technology. People will become more hooked on it than they are now.
I remember a cartoon I saw some years ago that shows how people became so depended on tech that they were all fat a lazy that they were in a floating chair and that their AI robots did everything for them. Is this what will become of man kind? Hum...
Well, it is good and sad that there has been so much already lost to tech. So many things that we once did with our minds and hands are now gone. Even the way they make automobiles are done with robots that have replaced humans. And now even cars will soon be produced that drive themselves. Yep, no need to even drive yourself, get in an AI car tell it where you want to go and off you go. That tech is happening right now. Soon to be out for one to buy.
Saying all that to say, I feel bad for the future of things, but I also see a lot of younger people leaning to the way we did things. So maybe at some point there will be a falling back to the way things need to be. If you watch things about how, they are predicting a fall-out on our tech in the sky. It scares me to think how people will react to when their cell phones and other things stop working. Even the lights in our home will stop. Because everything is connected to a computer and AIs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2024 8:33:13 GMT -6
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Post by dnic on Jan 5, 2024 11:15:21 GMT -6
The K$K Pure Mini is my go to acoustic pick up. I didn't say anything earlier because I don't do any recording. But These Minis are they way to go for an acoustic pick up. Like John I have put in a lot of these pups. I always keep a couple on hand in the shop. I like that they don't sit under the saddle so the saddle sits snug in the bottom of the route. I also like that there are passive, no battery to die in the middle of a gig. Or to chase out of the sound hole permanently removing the weakest velcro know to man. Also running them into an EQ gives you more control over the recorded sound. If there is a down side to K&K mini it's that they accurately reproduce the sound of the guitar. I know that sounds goofy. But the first time I installed one it didn't sound that good. Kind of muddy and dull. The second one I installed was in a rosewood Martin of some vintage. It sounded amazing. So at that point the other shoe dropped and I realized the first guitar sounded muddy and dull and the pup was was just truthfully reproducing its sound. Every unit since has sounded great! I've covered the install once or twice on my YT channel. Prolly that very first guitar.
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Post by dnic on Jan 5, 2024 11:16:46 GMT -6
3 Mics and Kitty Litter" wold be a great name for a band. Just saying...
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Post by dnic on Jan 5, 2024 11:34:21 GMT -6
I like the build process I mean I think it's an interesting approach. I believe I mentioned in a previous post that plywood is a sustainable resource. But I was thinking more along the standard building techniques Like what was used on my Aria 6 string. Which for the record sounds like a good sounding acoustic guitar. This design is way to bulky. There's no life in the sound at all. Thinner bracing and a radius in the top and back might help.
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Post by antares on Jan 5, 2024 11:37:55 GMT -6
I saw that video already. I liked it a lot but I would have preferred a slot head on a guitar of that particular style which goes to show how set in stone I am!
Edit: I was referring to the scrap wood guitar.
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Post by antares on Jan 6, 2024 8:38:13 GMT -6
I hadn't heard of that preamp before John, but I trust your word. I know that Yamaha used to do an acoustic version of my DG-Stomp (AG-Stomp?) which is still highly regarded to this day. I just cannot justify the acquisition when my DG-Stomp resides in a cupboard. My experience with piezo pickups is limited to the bargain bucket one that I installed in my Takemine F360s dread'. I did that approaching 45 years ago now, and a couple of years ago I discovered I could no longer get my arm in far enough to reach it! I managed to screw that Barcus Berry wannabee up into the bridge block inside from below and goodness knows how I managed to do it. It follows that my reference to Highlander is based on third party reports and at least for resonators you cannot ignore what all the big wigs say. There are/were some A-Listers who use them with vanilla acoustics too- Stephen Stills did (I think) and Martin Simpson's awesome acoustic sounds depend upon Highlander pickups. It's a shame that they're unobtanium now. They required extremely prescriptive installation steps and Highlander even sold bespoke routing tools- a circular rout was needed around the periphery on the underside of the biscuit. Highlanders were beyond my means- affordability goes beyond simply having the cash- it was about justification for what was being sold. My resonator has a DPA-4000 levalier mic. mounted on the underside of the domed cover plate. It took three attempts to find a location that achieved an acceptable sound. Below the cone on a tiny gooseneck mounted on the neck stick was far too boomy which was no surprise because all the pundits warned me. Above the cone mounted under the cover plate on the treble strings side was way too ice-picky. Eventually it was the bass strings side above the cone mounted under the cover plate that produced acceptable sounds. This represents a good compromise- I get the airiness of a microphone as opposed to the physical vibration sound from a piezo but I only need to plug in, and I didn't need to resort to a magnetic pickup which delivers predictable sounds on a resonator. Some folks install a jack socket in an "F" hole but I found that too ugly to contemplate. Sixtus (Austria?) made some really inexpensive and highly regarded ultra low profile innovative magnetic pickups for resos, and I believe that the designer used convict labour to assemble them, but they ceased production too- an all too familiar theme so it seems. I was gifted the DPA mic. It would have been way beyond my means as well, probably even more so than a Highlander. The strap peg jack socket required removal of the tailpiece block internally, and cutting back the neck stick laboriously via the conewell access with a snapped off hand-held hacksaw blade to create the required space. I used a stereo barrel socket to feed in phantom power for the DPA mic. Those same pundits warned me of imminent body collapse should I remove the tailpiece block, but as an ex-sheet metal worker I ignored them and it is still standing up fine after 15 years. Originally, the tailpiece block was short of the neck stick by 3/16" anyway which may have been shrinkage, so all it was really doing was providing a screw down point for the original strap peg which a self-tapper would have achieved anyway. I reckon the sheet metal work is why I cannot get my arm in the Takemine any more! I've heard good reports of the K&K and also the "Headway" system. I do know that when I jacked my dread' straight into a PA in an open night at an English pub and it sounded abominable. Sadly as I'm all too frequently admitting, I don't have any need to amplify my resonator here at home any longer, so to some extent it was all a wasted exercise. Even being objective about the derived amplified sound involved putting the amp into another room because of how loud the reso is! It's all good fun!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2024 9:09:59 GMT -6
I like the build process I mean I think it's an interesting approach. I believe I mentioned in a previous post that plywood is a sustainable resource. But I was thinking more along the standard building techniques Like what was used on my Aria 6 string. Which for the record sounds like a good sounding acoustic guitar. This design is way to bulky. There's no life in the sound at all. Thinner bracing and a radius in the top and back might help. I thought this guitar sounded pretty good on my end of things. I like this video because he did not use the same thing in building like so many out there. I bet I have now watched at least 200 videos on acoustic guitar making. Most of them have become boring because it's someone coping the same thing that everyone else does. I call them cookie cutter guitars. To me, it's like a paper clip. You have seen one, you have pretty much seen them all.
Where are the people that think out of the box? Why do we think because “that's the way it has been done” Is always the way to go? If you're going to build a custom of anything, then do what the word implies and build a custom! Be or do something other than copy what has been done already.
I know I have made a lot of T and LP kind of sort of guitars. Only because I like the shape of them. But most of them are not exact copies of what has been done. In all of my builds, I have tried to put a twist on what has been done. Otherwise, it would become boring.
I don't know, but I will be trying some of my ideas out soon. Somehow I will build an acoustic guitar. I have already been talking to other woodworkers, picking their brains on some of my ideas. They seem to think that it should work. But I'll never know for sure until I do it! I'll start with a prototype, then go from there. If I like how it comes out, then I'll make it out of better woods.
I just can't bring myself to make a copy of a guitar or build it under “that is the way it's done” kind of thing. I am not trying to sell the guitar, only trying to see if there is something I can do that not many have done before. If someone wants a martin or Taylor acoustic, then go buy one, don't ask me to make you one that will end up costing more than what you can already buy one for.
I just talked to a guy that builds what he calls custom acoustic guitars. His starting price is $10,000, and you have to be on a waiting list that is 2 years long before he can get to you. I am glad he can get that much for his guitars. I am glad he has that many people wanting one of his guitars. But WOW! Are they really worth it? The cool thing about him is if you buy one of the guitars, and you don't like it, he will buy it back at the cost he charged you for it or build you another one. Plus, he gives you a lifetime of support for that guitar. Not too many offers that!
Building should be fun! But here of late I am losing the fun! So many people out there making guitars and being a little on the snob side to others because they do something out of the box! I am for the person that wants to do something else.
When I did cars as a hobby, not too many people were doing what I did to cars at the time. And many times I would get a lot of angry people because I would cut up a car and make it a work of art. I refused to build a “Kustom” car the way it had been done, or to put some ad on/bolt on things to a car and call it a kustom! No way, no how is a car like that a Kustom!
That is the way I feel about guitars.
What do you call someone that does the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result? LOL! I'll wait! HA! HA!
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Post by dnic on Jan 6, 2024 10:58:17 GMT -6
I like the build process I mean I think it's an interesting approach. I believe I mentioned in a previous post that plywood is a sustainable resource. But I was thinking more along the standard building techniques Like what was used on my Aria 6 string. Which for the record sounds like a good sounding acoustic guitar. This design is way to bulky. There's no life in the sound at all. Thinner bracing and a radius in the top and back might help. I thought this guitar sounded pretty good on my end of things. I like this video because he did not use the same thing in building like so many out there. I bet I have now watched at least 200 videos on acoustic guitar making. Most of them have become boring because it's someone coping the same thing that everyone else does. I call them cookie cutter guitars. To me, it's like a paper clip. You have seen one, you have pretty much seen them all. Where are the people that think out of the box? Why do we think because “that's the way it has been done” Is always the way to go? If you're going to build a custom of anything, then do what the word implies and build a custom! Be or do something other than copy what has been done already.
I know I have made a lot of T and LP kind of sort of guitars. Only because I like the shape of them. But most of them are not exact copies of what has been done. In all of my builds, I have tried to put a twist on what has been done. Otherwise, it would become boring. I don't know, but I will be trying some of my ideas out soon. Somehow I will build an acoustic guitar. I have already been talking to other woodworkers, picking their brains on some of my ideas. They seem to think that it should work. But I'll never know for sure until I do it! I'll start with a prototype, then go from there. If I like how it comes out, then I'll make it out of better woods. I just can't bring myself to make a copy of a guitar or build it under “that is the way it's done” kind of thing. I am not trying to sell the guitar, only trying to see if there is something I can do that not many have done before. If someone wants a martin or Taylor acoustic, then go buy one, don't ask me to make you one that will end up costing more than what you can already buy one for.
I just talked to a guy that builds what he calls custom acoustic guitars. His starting price is $10,000, and you have to be on a waiting list that is 2 years long before he can get to you. I am glad he can get that much for his guitars. I am glad he has that many people wanting one of his guitars. But WOW! Are they really worth it? The cool thing about him is if you buy one of the guitars, and you don't like it, he will buy it back at the cost he charged you for it or build you another one. Plus, he gives you a lifetime of support for that guitar. Not too many offers that! Building should be fun! But here of late I am losing the fun! So many people out there making guitars and being a little on the snob side to others because they do something out of the box! I am for the person that wants to do something else.
When I did cars as a hobby, not too many people were doing what I did to cars at the time. And many times I would get a lot of angry people because I would cut up a car and make it a work of art. I refused to build a “Kustom” car the way it had been done, or to put some ad on/bolt on things to a car and call it a kustom! No way, no how is a car like that a Kustom!
That is the way I feel about guitars.
What do you call someone that does the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result? LOL! I'll wait! HA! HA!
It will be interesting to see what you come up with.
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Post by antares on Jan 6, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -6
Ten thousand dollars for a guitar?
Well let's see then; My acoustic listed at north of £9k when I bought it at a significant discount back in 2015 (it had a tiny flaw.) These prices were inclusive of VAT. There are no prices on the website- you have to write for a current pricelist, so I don't know what they cost now. The builder makes two at a time and the build process takes two months (and I believe a third party spends 5-6 weeks lacquering them. A back of a f*g packet calculation shows that he makes 12 each year. Based upon that 2015 price, he derived £115k+ per year in 2015.
He has a sometime trainee/assistant/apprentice who probably needs £20-25k each year to live. On top, he has to pay the DHSS contributions for himself and his assistant, unless they're all self-employed in which case wages would need to be higher to compensate. Let's not forget he has to pay the guy who lacquers them too. I guess as a sought after craftsman, he deserves to make at least £50k per year? I would say more but let's make that assumption because I suspect he actually makes less after the books have been duly signed off.
He has a very old one horse town schoolhouse converted into a workshop, it is probably highly inefficient with regard to insulation, so he has to factor in above average costs for heating and climate control 24/7 for his timber store let alone his creations and the working occupants (it is not residential.) Water rates? Electricity? Oh yes- the wood; muchos costly as has been noted. I know he has been to the P.N.W. to source timber amongst other places, and he also gets some from another kindly reknowned maker relatively close by.
Then we must factor in business rates extracted by the local council and corporation tax on any profit he makes paid to The Exchequer. The VAT element accounts for 20%, so of that £115k, £23k must be VAT alone which he has to pay to the VAT people. The income tax that he has to pay for himself and his "employee". Then there is the upkeep and running repairs on that tiny old one room schoolhouse with one or two very much smaller side rooms. What about normal wear and tear on tools?
So how much is left out of that £115k+ annual income? I submit that £10K+ is more in the ballpark for the price of a bespoke instrument. He is lucky because he has folks queueing up for his guitars, mandolins, citterns (even the occasional dulcimer I believe?)
It was SWMBO who prodded me into buying it- maybe she was fed up with me harping on about one for years! That old affordability conundrum had long been ruling my head over my heart. When I got over the sticker shock and broke it down, I could see how it all adds up. I have never for even a fleeting moment regretted buying that guitar, especially so since I paid below 2/3 of the going rate. These days, I leave it cased for weeks at a time, and when I get it out it smacks me between the eyes with its sound every time. Even shoe-horned into the case which obviously restricts vibrations and resonance, it still sounds superb when I strum idly over the strings before closing the case again. Playing it all the time dilutes that frisson, and I am lucky to have many other instruments to dally with.
When I first enquired about these instruments back in 2002, they were £3k and I nearly feinted! I wrote to him apologetically explaining that it was way out of my league, and cited my Yamaha LS400vt from which I'd derived much pleasure. His kindly and gentle reply was that the most important thing was to find the guitar that speaks to you and makes you happy. That's how I feel about folks with £500 guitars- if they speak to them and make them happy, that's just great and sure their technique and abilities probably more than makes up for any purely imagined defficiency in an instrument. Sure it would be a fool who stated that my guitar sounds ten times better than X or Y guitar, but I feel comfortable in saying that it does sound in a different league to my Yamaha and my Takemine. That said I immediately and unreservedly concede that it's not 10-20 times better. That's the law of diminishing returns setting in- you can't avoid it. With such low production figures, I just feel priviledged to be it's custodian for my unseeable future.
"Cold dead hands ..."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2024 13:26:34 GMT -6
Here is one of my favorite builders. Been watching her for years.
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Post by dnic on Jan 7, 2024 8:22:49 GMT -6
Ten thousand dollars for a guitar? Well let's see then; My acoustic listed at north of £9k when I bought it at a significant discount back in 2015 (it had a tiny flaw.) These prices were inclusive of VAT. There are no prices on the website- you have to write for a current pricelist, so I don't know what they cost now. The builder makes two at a time and the build process takes two months (and I believe a third party spends 5-6 weeks lacquering them. A back of a f*g packet calculation shows that he makes 12 each year. Based upon that 2015 price, he derived £115k+ per year in 2015. He has a sometime trainee/assistant/apprentice who probably needs £20-25k each year to live. On top, he has to pay the DHSS contributions for himself and his assistant, unless they're all self-employed in which case wages would need to be higher to compensate. Let's not forget he has to pay the guy who lacquers them too. I guess as a sought after craftsman, he deserves to make at least £50k per year? I would say more but let's make that assumption because I suspect he actually makes less after the books have been duly signed off. He has a very old one horse town schoolhouse converted into a workshop, it is probably highly inefficient with regard to insulation, so he has to factor in above average costs for heating and climate control 24/7 for his timber store let alone his creations and the working occupants (it is not residential.) Water rates? Electricity? Oh yes- the wood; muchos costly as has been noted. I know he has been to the P.N.W. to source timber amongst other places, and he also gets some from another kindly reknowned maker relatively close by. Then we must factor in business rates extracted by the local council and corporation tax on any profit he makes paid to The Exchequer. The VAT element accounts for 20%, so of that £115k, £23k must be VAT alone which he has to pay to the VAT people. The income tax that he has to pay for himself and his "employee". Then there is the upkeep and running repairs on that tiny old one room schoolhouse with one or two very much smaller side rooms. What about normal wear and tear on tools? So how much is left out of that £115k+ annual income? I submit that £10K+ is more in the ballpark for the price of a bespoke instrument. He is lucky because he has folks queueing up for his guitars, mandolins, citterns (even the occasional dulcimer I believe?) It was SWMBO who prodded me into buying it- maybe she was fed up with me harping on about one for years! That old affordability conundrum had long been ruling my head over my heart. When I got over the sticker shock and broke it down, I could see how it all adds up. I have never for even a fleeting moment regretted buying that guitar, especially so since I paid below 2/3 of the going rate. These days, I leave it cased for weeks at a time, and when I get it out it smacks me between the eyes with its sound every time. Even shoe-horned into the case which obviously restricts vibrations and resonance, it still sounds superb when I strum idly over the strings before closing the case again. Playing it all the time dilutes that frisson, and I am lucky to have many other instruments to dally with. When I first enquired about these instruments back in 2002, they were £3k and I nearly feinted! I wrote to him apologetically explaining that it was way out of my league, and cited my Yamaha LS400vt from which I'd derived much pleasure. His kindly and gentle reply was that the most important thing was to find the guitar that speaks to you and makes you happy. That's how I feel about folks with £500 guitars- if they speak to them and make them happy, that's just great and sure their technique and abilities probably more than makes up for any purely imagined defficiency in an instrument. Sure it would be a fool who stated that my guitar sounds ten times better than X or Y guitar, but I feel comfortable in saying that it does sound in a different league to my Yamaha and my Takemine. That said I immediately and unreservedly concede that it's not 10-20 times better. That's the law of diminishing returns setting in- you can't avoid it. With such low production figures, I just feel priviledged to be it's custodian for my unseeable future. "Cold dead hands ..." Very well said Steve!
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Post by dnic on Jan 7, 2024 8:32:07 GMT -6
Here is one of my favorite builders. Been watching her for years.
I've been studded to Gabbie for a while now. But this makes the third person I've seen not using a heel mortise of any type. really goota love autocorrect. studded to Gabbie, really? (subbed)
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