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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 15:40:54 GMT -6
OK, We have been having some odd weather around here. I was hoping to work on my other build, but it turned out cold here. So I got this acoustic to work on. So, that will give me something to do until the weather changes.
Here is the guitar. This guitar is in a bad way. But I know I can fix it.
As you can see the bridge is lifting up. Also note that the string pegs are pushed all the way down. There is one peg broken off.
Not a super top on the line guitar. But the body and neck are in good shape.
The tuners are ok. They do have a lot of slack in them before they start turning the string.
the back has the usual rash on it. I think I can get most of that out.
The bridge cam right off, after removing the screws. No glue hold on to it at all. So, it was easy to remove.
nice and clean. I don't know what kind of glue was used on this guitar. But I am guessing it's something on the line of hide glue or fish glue. It does not look like wood glue.
I used my cell phone to look at the onside. It has some tape on the one side. I think it was left on there from the factory.
Everything on the inside looks pretty good, as far as the bars are. I do see why these guitars are cheap. The construction of this unit is almost like an amateur builder put it together. Sloppy craftsmanship. But things do look solid. But like I said the glue that was used looks a little strange to me. It not wood glue. At least not any that I have seen. It reminds me of hot glue.
The top is now almost flat after taking off the strings and taking off the bridge. It has almost flattened out on it's own. Once I get the bridge glued back on it should be good to go. But before I put the bridge back on I need to fill in the hole for the pegs and redrill them out. They are so over sized right now that the pegs almost fall through. LOL!
Fixing the bridge will give the guitar some more time to sit and flatten out some more. (I hope)... I will also have to some recrowing on the frets. Someone once again has filed a few frets and left them flat. Plus I need to give the fret board a good cleaning.
That is it for today.
EB
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Post by dnic on Nov 30, 2020 20:27:24 GMT -6
Most of the major players stopped using hide glue way back. Depending on the date of this one I would say probably an aliphatic resin type of glue. HHG and fish glue are very good/ strong glues. It kind of looks like they didn't get all the top finish off before gluing the bridge on. But I'm certainly no expert on all the different possibilities of glue all the different builders used.
Anyway looks like a fun project.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 11:55:24 GMT -6
Most of the major players stopped using hide glue way back. Depending on the date of this one I would say probably an aliphatic resin type of glue. HHG and fish glue are very good/ strong glues. It kind of looks like they didn't get all the top finish off before gluing the bridge on. But I'm certainly no expert on all the different possibilities of glue all the different builders used. Anyway looks like a fun project. The glue on this is super brittle, at least on the bridge. Plus the glue looks like it didn't adhere to the bridge itself. Yes the finish does go under the bridge as well. I was going to scrape off the finish to help the bridge adhere to the top better.
This guitar sounded really bad when it was strung up. I know that most of that was because the bridge was not glued down. I also was looking at the the neck block inside the body. It does not touch the back of the body at all. I was wondering if I should make a shim to take up the gap? There is like a 1/4" gap from the body to the block.
By looking at the construction of this guitar, I know I could have done better than this. But, I also know this a production guitar and not a lot of time spent on making it good quality guitar. Even the way they sanded the top and back bars are not done well. The back ones are sanded uneven but with roundness to it. While some on the top are not sanded and left ruff and square. They don't seem to be made of hard wood as well. They are soft like pine.
I am surprised that Gibson would let something like this out of the factory. But, It is what it is. Once fixed, I'll flip it, or find someone that wants a guitar that can't afford one. But, it should sound and play a lot better once I get done with it.
Today, I am going to plug the peg holes on the bridge. Then once that is ready, I'll redrill, and set the bridge back onto the guitar.
EB
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Post by antares on Dec 1, 2020 12:41:47 GMT -6
Unbelievable that they would bond the bridge on over the "lacquer". The adhesive can never be any stronger than the grip of the lacquer on the wood. Someone's going to luck out with this one when you've finished Eddie.
e&oe ...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 13:52:10 GMT -6
I don't know if anyone has ever thought of this. More than likely they have. But... I have had acoustics come to me with a buzzing or rattle sound when playing. They check out everything but the under side of the bridge. I have found at times, that when the wood around the holes where the pegs go can make that kind of noise when they splinter off. Or if the base plate gets a crack in it.
I will be working on that on this base plate. As you can see there are splinters all over it.
EB
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 18:01:34 GMT -6
OK... I did some work on the bridge;
One thing I have learned is don't throw anything (wood wise) away,I was able to take some of the rose wood I cut off of the fret board of the other project I am doing. I rounded off the edges on my table top belt sander. Then I clamped the wood in my little vice in the house and I used sand paper to get a good fit for the peg holes.
As I sanded, I would cut off the end and check it for fit.
I put some CA glue with some of the rosewood dust from sanding. I have saved the dust for the fret board of the other project. I did this on both sides. To help fill in any imperfection.
Here is the front after the glue and CA glued had dried and I sanded off the top of the bridge. Looking pretty good.
I think the cold here today took its tole on me. Kind of hurting today. So, I am going to let this sit for tonight. Tomorrow I'll redrill the peg holes. I am thinking of making a new jig for installing the bridge. I'll see how that goes. If it's another cold day, I may use my old jig I made some years ago. It works. I am in one of them design moods of late. I like to build and make stuff. Tools being one of them. LOL!
EB
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Post by antares on Dec 2, 2020 3:57:29 GMT -6
Nice work Eddie. One day you'll have to let us in on the trick that allows you to move home so frequently, yet never throw anything away!
e&oe ...
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Post by dnic on Dec 2, 2020 8:39:34 GMT -6
I just read the posts I missed and got caught up. So I'm back at the neck block not touching the back of the guitar. The bond between the block and the back is huge. I'm truly surprised that the sides and back haven't separated right at the base of the neck heel. Or at least distorted in a major way. I would certainly fit a filler piece of wood in there and get it glued in good.
You made me laugh Steve with the moving home comment. The wood in my shop accumulates at an alarming speed. So much so that I chop up scrap and put it my neighbors wood pile pretty often.
Eddie it's looking good! I've seen some very rough work on import acoustics but apparently there are Friday guitars just like there are Friday cars. Even in the good US of A.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 11:01:19 GMT -6
I just read the posts I missed and got caught up. So I'm back at the neck block not touching the back of the guitar. The bond between the block and the back is huge. I'm truly surprised that the sides and back haven't separated right at the base of the neck heel. Or at least distorted in a major way. I would certainly fit a filler piece of wood in there and get it glued in good. You made me laugh Steve with the moving home comment. The wood in my shop accumulates at an alarming speed. So much so that I chop up scrap and put it my neighbors wood pile pretty often. Eddie it's looking good! I've seen some very rough work on import acoustics but apparently there are Friday guitars just like there are Friday cars. Even in the good US of A. Dane I was thinking the same thing on the neck block. I don't think this guitar is all that old. But over time I know it will implode on it self. So, it makes since to me something needs to be done now, before it get bad. It also should help it sound some better too.
The top is now returned to being flat. Once the bridge is glued back on it should stay that way for a long time. I hope I can get the bridge back in place today. I also hope to get the filler made for it.
EB
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 15:08:14 GMT -6
Well, alright... I will get back on the other build soon!
I went ahead and made me a new clamp for clamping the bridge on. I hope it will work as good if not better than my last one I made. I used some basswood I had left over from the guitar I am building. I used some bolts I found in my cabinet. They are from a TV mounting kit I bough sometime ago. I cut the basswood to the shape you see. I then drilled four small holes for the bolts that will be going all the way though the body. I drill two of the bigger holes to a little smaller than needed and you my tap and die to thread the holes for the bigger bolts. So far so good. Latter on tonight I may go head a glue the bridge on. This new tool should work fine for this one guitar. Next time I am the hardware store. I'll get some nut or anchors for the big bolts. I also cut some squires as pads to go under the big bolts. I will do some test before I do any gluing. This was fun to make.
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Post by dnic on Dec 2, 2020 19:36:16 GMT -6
something about that bridge looks wrong! The last time I used my bridge clamp it didn't pull the front edge down. I think the bridge I built it for had a slightly different geometry. So I pulled it back off and used my long through the holes clamps. Now that I have a vacuum pump I'll develop a vacuum bridge clamp.
So Eddie is there a new inside caul or are you using part of the old set up?
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Post by antares on Dec 3, 2020 4:42:03 GMT -6
Nice one Eddie. I reckon that one's worthy of your home made tooling thread?
e&oe ...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 12:15:29 GMT -6
something about that bridge looks wrong! The last time I used my bridge clamp it didn't pull the front edge down. I think the bridge I built it for had a slightly different geometry. So I pulled it back off and used my long through the holes clamps. Now that I have a vacuum pump I'll develop a vacuum bridge clamp. So Eddie is there a new inside caul or are you using part of the old set up? Yes I am thinking on using part of the old jig. Only because it is metal. I never had any of the clamps used for in the hole mount. My old jig always worked fine. But with the new one I can help clamp the ends down better. I will be experimenting with it today.
I'll see how things work out.
EB
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 19:05:11 GMT -6
Ok here is a dry test of my jig.
I used a razor blade, chisel and some sand paper to get the super thick finish off. No wonder the bridge came off. The bridge was sitting on top of the finish about a 1/4" in around the bridge. So what I did was I used the razor blade and scored around the bridge. I then used the chisel to go around the score line to get the finish off. I used sand paper to help smooth things off.
Here is the dry test. I did cut the metal piece form the last jig to go on the bottom of this jig. ( kind of like a sandwich) I had to cut the metal so that it would fit better between the sound bars on the top. I think it worked out pretty slick.
I will at some point need to install 2 nuts to the under side of where the big bolts are. But I think it will be OK for now. The jig is doing what I wanted it to do. I was going to glue up today. But I think I am going to let set with the dry test for a day or two. In hopes it will flatten the top just a little bit more. It right now if so close to flat. But I do think it supposed to have some curve in it. I don't know if this top was super flat from the factory. Once I get the bridge on then I'll make the shim to go under the neck block.
EB
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 14:59:09 GMT -6
Got the bridge glued into place today.
I like to tape off around where the bridge will go to help not get glue all over the guitar.
Once I got the bridge on, I then took off the tape. Looks really good. The glue up that is.
It was a good thing to let the bridge sit for two days in the dry test. Really made a difference in how the bridge and body lined up with each other. I re used the screws that were on the bridge. I did put a bigger washer on the bottom side to help with the glue up. That worked out great! Over all I am pretty pleased in how my jig worked out.
I don't know id I'll do anything else today. It's another cold day and more rain on it's way. I may do the fret work that it needs later on today. I still need to make the insert that will go under the neck block.
EB
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