A question for John!

[Deleted]

Ok, maybe more of an idea and or a question.

 I got to thinking about acoustic guitars. Here is what I am wondering about.

 Is it possible to run the string through a pole magnet and get it to sound off in a good way? Can you make a pickup, kind of like a single coil, that could be used right behind the bridge so that the string would pass through the magnets across the bridge and make sound?

 The strings would come off of a tale piece, then through the magnets and so on. Or does the string need to vibrate over the magnet?

I know it may not be a good idea. But I seen this in a dream of mine. Got me to thinking. Hum...

 I got to thinking of a way to make a pickup for an acoustic guitar that would be different from an under saddle or a mini pickup or a number of other ways they put pickups in an acoustic.

 So I guess my question is do you think it could work? Maybe it could be done in an away that the pickups could be adjusted for intonation and therefore become the bridge?

 I know it would take some experimenting and a lot of work. And again it would go against everything as the norm, But, what if?

Let me know what you think. Maybe some has already done this?

 Please let me know your thoughts.

[antares]

This sounds rather like the modus operandi of the Horseshoe Magnet Pickup? I defer to John as per the thread title.

[dnic]

The horseshoe magnet crossed my mind but there is still space for the string to vibrate and disturb the magnetic field. And this would still be a magnetic pickup if it worked. Which is not typically the best sound for acoustic guitars. Not trying to be a Debbie downer just spit balling ideas. too defer to John as the go to guy for this stuff.

[Deleted]

Jan 9, 2024 10:18:14 GMT -6 dnic said:

The horseshoe magnet crossed my mind but there is still space for the string to vibrate and disturb the magnetic field. And this would still be a magnetic pickup if it worked. Which is not typically the best sound for acoustic guitars. Not trying to be a Debbie downer just spit balling ideas. too defer to John as the go to guy for this stuff.

What got me to thinking on this was I put a set of saddles on one of my Start guitars that made it sound like an acoustic guitar. So there is no magnetic field on those.

 I was only trying to see if it were possible to do something different from what has been done. Like all things, someone has got to rock the boat at some point. Otherwise, we would all be making and playing Ts and nothing else!

 Just trying to share an idea. If I could, I would do it myself to see if I could get it to work. I think it would work, but it would take some experimenting.

 

Here of late I have seen videos where people are installing hard tail bridges on acoustic guitars, and it seems to work out fine. That is almost like putting a Chevy engine in a Ford! LOL!

Heck, I know 2 guys that one puts electric strings on his acoustic guitar and the other one puts acoustic strings on his electric guitar. The thing is, the guitars sound pretty good. The guy that use electric string on his acoustic is because he can buy super lite string. I set that guitar up for him. He has some kind of problem with his fingers. So he needs a super lite string so he can play his acoustic. The other guy says he likes the way the acoustic string feels. We all like things the way we want them, right?

 Well, I know my idea may or may not work... But what if??? Why can't an acoustic have another way of the string to sound off that is not like what has been done so many times? Why not have an adjustable saddle on an acoustic guitar? Where each string can be adjusted? Now I Wonder if I could take the same system used on an electric guitar that makes them sound acoustic, and put that on an acoustic guitar. That way I would get what I am after. And adjustable string saddle for each string and get rid of string pegs.

 There has to be away...

[antares]

"Heck, I know 2 guys that one puts electric strings on his acoustic guitar and the other one puts acoustic strings on his electric guitar. The thing is, the guitars sound pretty good."

Ha! Years ago I used only Guild strings (Sidebenders?) on my acoustic until I couldn't get them any longer, and to this day I use D'Addario coated phosphor bronze acoustic strings on my Heritage Sweet16 because they sound so good on that guitar, even amplified!

[dnic]

I also have a client who likes EB slinky 9s on his acoustic. Same reason, it's easier to play.

Had to check bace to see who I was talking to, So EB, The ideas are great! That's how things happen, thinking outside the box. I have thought of using a TOM bridge on acoustic to get that electric adjustability. Then I saw an old Gibson or Epi with something very similar.

I think a wooden bridge with the acoustic piezo type saddles built into it could very possibly work. Built with slots and adjustment screws for intonation.

My main problem with messing with acoustic design is- I have this perfect acoustic tone/ concept in my head that I would hate to mess up with steel or composite saddles.

[Deleted]

Jan 9, 2024 14:56:07 GMT -6 dnic said:

My main problem with messing with acoustic design is- I have this perfect acoustic tone/ concept in my head that I would hate to mess up with steel or composite saddles.

I can understand that to some point. But what if it would sound better? Changing things are not always a bad thing. With all the makers/builders out there, someone will change the way acoustic guitars are made.

 But most people are so used to having things one way. I know I fall into that a lot. It's hard for me to look at guitars that the bodies and peg heads are odd. LOL! Like the headless peg head, never been a fan of that.

 I really do wish I was set up to make acoustic guitars. I would love to try everything out that I see in my head. At most, I may do 2 acoustic guitars. But I have ideas for at least 20 acoustic guitar builds. If not more.

 At this stage of the game, I don't have too many guitars left in me. But I am going to make me at least one acoustic.

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Jan 8, 2024 11:38:33 GMT -6 antares said:

This sounds rather like the modus operandi of the Horseshoe Magnet Pickup? I defer to John as per the thread title.

I've rewound a number of pickups over the years, and that includes a number of Rickenbacker horseshoes, Fender and Gibson lap steels, and some Japanese guitars from the 60s with unconventional magnet layouts.

It is clear that each has a different magnetic field and a different sound. The bottom line is that you are trying to get the string to vibrate in the magnetic field and that vibration is producing an AC current. The AC current goes down the patch cord (lead for our friends in the UK) and makes the amplifier rock.

I like humbuckers, but I like single coils, too. I have a new pickup I have been working on that I really like, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort to try to convince people it sounds different! More to follow on that.

Take your pick - there are a lot of ways to do this. The pickup is a link in the chain, and I still think the guitar and its construction has a big impact on the sound coming out of the amp.


Steve - I, too, went through a Sidebender phase!

John

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Jan 6, 2024 15:26:20 GMT -6 @stealthguitar said:

Ok, maybe more of an idea and or a question.

 I got to thinking about acoustic guitars. Here is what I am wondering about.

 Is it possible to run the string through a pole magnet and get it to sound off in a good way? Can you make a pickup, kind of like a single coil, that could be used right behind the bridge so that the string would pass through the magnets across the bridge and make sound?

 The strings would come off of a tale piece, then through the magnets and so on. Or does the string need to vibrate over the magnet?

I know it may not be a good idea. But I seen this in a dream of mine. Got me to thinking. Hum...

 I got to thinking of a way to make a pickup for an acoustic guitar that would be different from an under saddle or a mini pickup or a number of other ways they put pickups in an acoustic.

 So I guess my question is do you think it could work? Maybe it could be done in an away that the pickups could be adjusted for intonation and therefore become the bridge?

 I know it would take some experimenting and a lot of work. And again it would go against everything as the norm, But, what if?

Let me know what you think. Maybe some has already done this?

 Please let me know your thoughts.

For most of the people out there gigging at Coffee Houses and church - with the occasional road trip thrown in - a Taylor acoustic with their built-in pickup is probably the best bet. They are rugged, sound good through the PA, and you can get somebody to look at it and perform warranty replacement at just about any Guitar Center.

If i were going to produce an alternative, it would have to be at least as good as the Taylor system.  That is a pretty tall order, but I know somebody has an idea.

I've seen singer/songwriters struggle with an old J-45 and an installed pickup, and get mad when it stops working at a critical time. I always tell them to buy something bullet proof for traveling, and leave the vintage/cool stuff at home.

John

[Deleted]

I have owned Taylor and Martin electric acoustic guitars. For me, I liked the Martin over the Taylor. The Martin sounded so good when plugged into a PA. The $3500 Taylor was so disappointing to me. Never could get it to sound as good as the Martin.

 Again, I understand in not wanting to change the way things have been done for so many years. But if no one ever came along and changed things or asked what "If" Then we all would still be riding horses.

 Not after trying to change the way an acoustic sounds. There just has to be another way of doing it.

 On Taylor guitars, they will not sell to the public their electronic pickup systems to you unless you are a Taylor dealer. I had a Taylor come in to my shop some years ago and the pickup system had stopped working in it. I got hold of Taylor, and they told me I would have to take it to a dealer to get the guitar fixed. The guy that owned the guitar did not want to take it to the dealer in town because that shop was known for not being the place to take your gear to have them work on it. The customer even told me of how that shop messed up one of his guitars and he did bring me that guitar for me to fix.

 So we wound up pitting in an all new system for his Taylor. He loved his Taylor and was not wanting to sell it. After I changed it over, he was real happy with the guitar. He said he thought it sounded better than ever being plugged into a PA.

 So for me, This is one reason I will never own another Taylor. I have had 4 of them at all price ranges. Same as a Martin acoustic. I have owned a lot of them only to sell them because they were not any better to me than other acoustics out there. But I will say the Martin did sound great plugged in to a PA.

 The EPI master built was a close second. But back in the old days of me playing on stage and my first acoustic guitar not having electronics in it, It had to have a mic in front of it. And you know, it didn't sound bad at all.

 I was only sharing an idea of what I was thinking about. This is all part of the acoustic guitar I want to make. So if I am going to make a "Kustom" acoustic guitar, then why not make it "Kustom" The word "Kustom" means to do something out of the norm.

 But my question still remains UN answered. Please read my first post and not skim through it and not really read what I am asking. I know how the tried and "true" things work. I understand how the way things are and how they work.

 Guess I'll do what I always do, I'll have to do something, see if it works or not. I thought someone could give me some input on my idea. I have not seen anyone one doing it the way I want to do, make a pickup system for an acoustic guitar. If there are, I have not seen them.

 I don't want to be like everyone else. Right now I am thinking of a design for the acoustic I want to make. But I am going to keep that under wraps. But I will say it will not be like everything else out there. LOL! Or will it? HA!

[GuitarAttack Forum]

There are a lot of different acoustic pickups out there, and I think I have heard them all.

The K&K and ToneDexter combo is pretty brilliant. Somebody thought that one up and it sounds great.

I'll thought this out to everybody - If you have a better idea, build it. It may catch on.

John

[Deleted]

Again not better, only another way of doing something.
Think out of the box, not in it. LOL!
What if someone was to use fiber optics for a pickup? Or some kind of laser for a pickup?

I have seen a lot and heard a lot too. I remember an amp I played on that used fiber optics in it. It was a prototype for Rolland. This was back in the 80s. It was the clearest sounding amp I ever played on. But it never went to production, as far as I know. I even signed up to be on a list to buy one when it was for sale for the public. Never got a call or email. But I do think it that amp had the tech in it that a lot of guitar amps have today. Using computer chips is one. That amp was on the cutting edge of what we now are seeing as normal.

The only thing I could say about that amp not going into production was because of the fiber optics. My thinking is that it made the amp week in the abuse that many would have put that amp through.

Too bad, though, it was one of the best sounding amps I had ever played through. You could not even hear that it was on until you played through it!

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Here is one I have not tried. Anybody who's heard this should chime in.

www.willcoxguitars.com/lightwave-optical-pickup-system/

John

[Deleted]

Jan 10, 2024 10:25:43 GMT -6 GuitarAttack Forum said:

Here is one I have not tried. Anybody who's heard this should chime in.

www.willcoxguitars.com/lightwave-optical-pickup-system/

John

This is interesting. See, what ever I can think up, someone has done it. LOL!

  He did say the one thing in one of the videos about how clear the sound is over a magnet pickup. I would like to see this tech on a regular acoustic.

I had one of the strats with the Roland interface. It was a lot of fun while it lasted. I wound up selling later on. I used it when making demos for people when they wanted to have something else in the mix.

 I wonder how it works out in a traveling band kind of thing? But I do like this! Cool stuff! A little out of my price range but cool!