Gibson Toggle Switches

[antares]

Well, not Gibson per-se, more properly "Switchcraft" and its imitators? I have long been troubled by a slight buzz (or rattle or vibration( that I traced to the ubiquitous toggle switch used on Gibson Hum-Hums and the like. I have three such guitars- the Yamahas SG2000 and SA2000 and also the Firebird. I suspect (because I haven't poked a mirror and lamp inside) that the SA2000 has a right angled variant as does the Firebird, but I may find a straight variant when I open up the SG2000. Fiddling with a fully functional wiring harness of a 335-a-like gives me the cold shivers!

Today in an idle moment during lockdown, I decided to exercise some google-fu! Although I found a couple of websites where others have encountered the same phenomenon, the input from the contributors was vacuous at best, and a YouTube video purporting to fix it by filing the contacts was speeded up so fast it was like watching a Buster Keeton movie on steroids. The video poster didn't seem to understand how so many folks were baffled by it. I can tell you that I was sore tempted to award a thumbs-down but that goes against my principles. Why he thought a file was the tool of choice beats me.

I proceeded to remove the Firebird pick guard and then the switch. These switches are unworthy of the good name of Switchcraft. Fair enough- there is no quick fix to slip-shod stack-em-high engineering, and to some extent, guitarists generally being so conservative that they reject any change. In that context, it must be at best a 50's design and we get what we deserve?

I moved the toggle cap to one side and inserted a snipe-nosed pliers jaw between the open contact gaps pretty close to the switch wafers, and proceeded to twist in the outside leaf, thus imposing greater centre-seeking force of the outside switch leaf. I repeated this exercise on the opposing outside switch leaf with the toggle thrown the other way from centre position. This has provided a fix although I feel it may need to be revisited from time to time.

I have long suspected this may be the problem but haven't so far looked inside at the switch geometry and mechanical construction. What I have been doing for some years now is to leave the switch in the middle (or "both") position. I feel that doing this obviates a static deflection being induced over time into the outer switch leaves. Just look at the design; a Nylon shaft connected to the pivoted switch shaft flips the leaves to break one contact leaving the opposite contact shorted. It relies upon both outer leaves bearing down on the Nylon shaft in the centre position with sufficient force to prevent this vibration from occurring.

I can't find it in my heart to believe that I'm the only one that has experienced this because I have it on all three Hum-Hum guitars in my possession. It's fair to say that you cannot hear it when amplified so perhaps I'm just a little obsessed since the electrical circuit is not compromised.

I'll chalk it up as a success for now.

e&oe ...

[Deleted]

For me, I have found that a lot of guitars do have some static in them. Most of my guitars are dead quite. You don't even know that the guitar is plugged in until you play it.

 But some others let you know that they are there. So many things are a factor in guitars, amps, and the power source. On most of my amps I use a wall bug to get rid of any kind of static coming out of the wall to the amp to the guitar.

 I have also found that cleaning the switches and pots on a regular basses can help with low static. Another thing on guitars are plastic fret board can cause static. The way to fix that is use a dryer sheet on them.

Some times the cables we use can also cause low static. I know a lot of the cables I have that are cheap cables I seem to get that low end static. My expensive cable I don't get that.

But yes if you are like me stuff like this drives me nuts!

 But, I know I do have this thing to where I over think things. LOL!

EB

[dnic]

Steve, I had a brand new Switchcraft 3 way toggle come to me making no contact at all on one side. I applied the same method of tab tweeking that you describe. It was a total success and if I could remember which guitar it is in I could tell you of continued success. I have also used denatured alcohol and very fine sand paper to clean contacts. I cut a strip about 4000 grit, dip it in alcohol and pull it between the contacts. Adjust, tweek the tabs as needed. No further issues.

[antares]

Go ahead and make a coffee for this one!

Of course you do have to keep in mind that there is a TDC cam action that allows the switch to latch, and so there is a need to exercise caution in the manner and degree of bending.

Regarding the typical four pot Gibson wiring generally; I note that all three of my aforementioned guitars have the two volume potentiometers configured one above the other with their respective tone controls tagging along behind. As I sit here I can confirm that to this day I still can't remember which volume is for "rhythm" and which is for "Lead". I accept that I'm in a minority, but it would make a great deal more sense to me if the two volume controls were arranged in the same order as the pickups and their associated tone controls situated below them. I allow that this is probably the way it has always been done, that I'm being subjective and that it shouldn't take too long to commit to memory, but I ended my working life in aerospace quality control, and Boeing and Airbus would not allow that kind of thing. Lessons are learned from air accident investigations and repeat incidents are rare. This approach becomes ingrained. I have broken a dinner plate in a holiday rental accomodation before now because the hot plate controls were ambiguous. I plan to rearrange my wiring physically on the Firebird and the Yamaha SG2000 (provided there is sufficient slack in the hook-up wires because folks get itchy about disturbed solder) but the 335-a-like SA2000 can stay put!

What else then? The pickups. One height adjustment screw at each end. Both of my Yamahas have two height adjustment screws on the bass side, and with that arrangement the pickups can be aligned with the strings easily. Not so with the Firebird. Yamaha have been doing that for well in excess of forty years, but not Gibson, oh no. Henry is supposed to have said something along the lines of "You can have it any color you like as long as it's black"! The "rhythm" pickup being more "submerged" has the springs fairly well compressed and is kind of OK- not perfect but useable. On the other hand, the "Lead" pickup rocks back and forth like a demented Quasimodo, and it simply cannot be persuaded to stay aligned normal to the strings. I have wondered what to do about this and I'm a bit stumped. I thought of foam beneath the pick up base but the amount and locations would be dependent upon the set up. This is such a simple and basic thing that it should gave been addressed aeons ago. It barely warrants talking about, but someone needs to make that call.

I suppose Gibson think that its client base being typically conservative will not accept any departures from the tried and tested? I once contacted Gibson when contemplating a new Firebird to enquire why nickel plating was not an option, and the withering reply was that they only sell what customers want. Nice blue-tinged chrome. Hmm. I've written on here that I swapped out the body hardware for nickel plated equivalents. The pick up covers were an "interesting" exercise! I'd like to swap out the banjo tuners for some nickel plated Klusons, but something inside tells me they'd be just as appalling as the Gibson ones that are installed. Verily I say unto yee that the Firebird's tuners are akin to the temptation of ... I reckon they have eccentrically shaped "ball" bearings inside. After Katrina, Gibson stated that they'd lost the Banjo tuners' tooling in the aftermath. Nah, it was just an excuse to bury bad news in my view. Still 'n' all- I wouldn't change them for (let's say) some wonderful Sperzels because I too am conservative regarding "classics".

All that said, I spent most of my life as a Leo worshipper, and although I'm no great fan of the Lester profile specifically, over the years I have begun to understand and realise why Gibsons (and their plagiarisers) are so popular. For a start they have had to persue a generally more labour intensive production process than Fender and remain competitive and this is noticeable in the designs and attendant quality. Theoretically that is. Against all my expectations, my Firebird (neck-through and built like a battleship) has a wonderful airy self resonance (or natural reverb if you will) up at the dusty end. Any Leo-type I've ever played needed a creamed amplifier to get anywhere near to that nirvana.

e&oe ...

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Jan 12, 2021 8:37:04 GMT -6 dnic said:

Steve, I had a brand new Switchcraft 3 way toggle come to me making no contact at all on one side. I applied the same method of tab tweeking that you describe. It was a total success and if I could remember which guitar it is in I could tell you of continued success. I have also used denatured alcohol and very fine sand paper to clean contacts. I cut a strip about 4000 grit, dip it in alcohol and pull it between the contacts. Adjust, tweek the tabs as needed. No further issues.

Having worked on a lot of old guitars, I can honestly say that the old switches and pots from the mid- to late-50s seemed much more robust and rarely came In in “failure mode”. It’s like the old CTS and CentralLab pots seemed like they were almost bulletproof if maintained.

I’ve had to tab tweak brand new Epis, and, more recently Gibson. I can’t help but think the final assembly checkers on those lines aren’t paying attention! I do use a lot of Deoxit - both red and gold - to keep the contacts clean. Note - you find a lot of 50s and 60s Strats with the spring removed from the 3-way switch. A common mod when players discovered the in-between “mystery tone” before we got 5-way switches. Always check these if you are buying or inspecting and old Strat.

And, without a doubt, they will always fail at the worst possible time! If you have a newer guitar with a switch making noise, do yourself a favor and replace it as soon as possible to avoid that failure.

Good luck,
John

[antares]

Ah! so it's value engineering rather than just the engineering. Those bean counters again! Well who knew! When I look at the switches that I put in my bitzas from around 1980, I can see the differences that you have highlighted John. Good point well made.

e&oe ...