Gigging: The Tao of the Fanatical Drummer.

[radrook]

The Tao of the Fanatical Drummer. 

     A drummer can be a great asset to a band. He can provide a great rhythmic background around which intricate patterns of music can be woven or a smooth singer can be heard such as in the song Fever where the singer's words are punctuated at critical moments with a sudden brief drum roll followed once more by a sensual use brush sticks swished around creating a sensual mood and adding emphasis to a singer's words. Or a drummer 's steady beat can go along nicely with songs such as Johnny Cash's I got Stripes giving the song a certain dynamic drive that it would otherwise lack. But in all such cases, the drums provide support and do not draw unnecessary attention to themselves as the prime performance. The singer and Rhythm guitars are clearly heard, and the lead adds counterpoint and essential embellishments, all in a beautiful balance that makes for pleasant listening experience.



     Fortunately, most professional band drummers fall into this category. Unfortunately, there is this rare breed of drummer who seems to feel that he is the whole show, and must be heard above the rest of the band because they, in his delusional world, are his background. I have often wonder why some drummers feel that the audience appreciates that kind of display. After all, during a parade, perhaps that can be understood. People are marching, and the drummer keeps them in a steady stride. Furthermore, during a march, there are usually many horns and other wind instruments that can be heard above the incessant pounding. But in a small band of four, within the confines of an enclosed place, trying to be heard above a fanatically deliriously pounding drummer might shatter ear drums. So the place would soon be empty.



     What usually happens seems to be, that the rest of the players just decide go along with it. Why? Well, maybe because they are afraid of losing the drummer? Maybe because they think that they are sounding cool? Maybe because they are now half-deaf from all the drumming and can no longer hear the bedlam that he unleashes every time they cut him loose at a gig? Beats me. I was recently tempted to approach a band and tell them that their drummer was too loud. But considering how humans can react in all kinds of unpredictable ways when they feel they are right, I decided not to risk it. Our drummer seemed ready to physically attack this lady who complained about his drumming late at night because she called it noise. So caution is advised.

[antares]

I have long been of the persuasion that the vast majority of drumming would benefit from a somewhat more conservative approach to the cymbals. $0.02 etc!

e&oe ...

[dnic]

I play with the perfect drummer right now. I have played with a loud drummer and could never hear myself and kept needing to turn up. Then ironically he would tell me I was to loud. No win no fun!

I ran sound for 20 years in a coffee house and we had our share of loud rock bands. I had way more trouble with guitar players than drummers. Although in a small room with an acoustic kit it was hard to get drummers to quite down because apparently hitting the drum head with a certain force helps them keep the time. so the drums set the level and everyone else wants to bring their level up to match. Haven't had to deal with that in several years.

As guitar players go they like the amp behind them facing the audience and then the sound guy has no control. So if you can talk them into facing the guitars at themselves and micing them that will usually work better. A little off track here, sorry.

[antares]

A coffee house sounds like a tricky environment to manage drums? Outside of a dedicated booth, drums need space to spread out physically as well as audibly I reckon? The last time I played with a drummer it was in his father's garage. A couple of us were trying to give him confidence to play live (which we achieved). He was about 12-13 years old and could impressively solo away ad-infinitum but couldn't just keep basic time. In that tiny garage it was impossible to hear myself or even turn around on the spot without knocking into something. We can all recognise that scenario I expect. I was playing through a little Tech21 Trademark 10 amp. 10 watts should have been sufficient but I had to exchange it for my 100 watts Yamaha G100-112 next time we "rehearsed". Such overkill for a garage!

These days I am limited to an Alesis SR18 midi drum machine (which I have no idea how to programme!) and more recently a Digitech Trio. The Trio is a piece of work indeed. Take a look on YouTube. If you've never seen or heard of it then prepare to be slack-jawed! I struggle with toe tap timing (just as I do with loopers generally), but the Trio adds bass and drums to your input chord loop and it's beyond uncanny. I mention this only because I can turn its volume down, unlike a drummer!

e&oe ...

[Deleted]

There are drummers that play the drums and ones that beat the drums. I have played with so many drummer over many years. In the I played with two that I have to say were players not beaters. They never got any louder than we were playing. The one drummer I played with with, when we first met, I had only my acoustic guitar and no amp. He wanted to play some music with me and my concern was I had no amp to keep up with him. He told me he would never get any louder than me.

 So, I had to hear this! This drummer was AWESOME!!! He could do all kind of things on them drums and not once did he get louder than my acoustic guitar. At that time I had never played with a drummer with that like of control! WOW! I Miss that guy!

 The other guy I played with used an electric drum set. He we was Awesome as well. The cool thing in that was that is could control how loud he was was through his amp or through the sound system. He was a great drummer equal to the other guy I was talking about. I sure miss them guys!

 The were both top of the line musicians.

 There really is no need to put drummers in cages if they know how to play and not beat the drums!

EB 

Added note. Have had the same problem with key board players as well wanting the key board turned up louder than everyone else in the band. To the point to where that is all you can hear.

[antares]

The vice president (commercial) of the company I worked at in Renton near Seattle WA somehow found out that I played a bit, and invited me up to his house in Issaquah for a jam. He had guitars, amps and keyboards, and also both an acoustic and electronic drum kit in his basement big boys room. He sat down at his acoustic kit and like you describe, he was never louder than me. He also has a superb singing voice. A real gent. (Hello Joe!) So they're out there.

BTW Eddie, I now have all my hats hanging from the wall hangers like you. So obvious but I had never put two and two together and made four!

e&oe ...

[dnic]

I was able to get very good sound in that little room Steve. It had a lot of glass and hard surfaces like rock and brick. But for whatever reason I was able to get it dialed in pretty well. Unless people just refused to keep their volume at a decent level. We always had the little "monitor talk" where I would explain the physics of sound pressure. It goes like this in a nut shell, if you want to sound good in the house we have to lower the stage/monitor volume. If the monitors are driving the house you will never get clean house sound. There's another little rabbit trail, no charge.

So Steve, sounds like you worked in the states at some point if I'm reading this right. And if you were in Washington then I live just 8 short hours south straight down I-5.

Is truley a pleasure to play with drummers that aren't beaters Eddie.

[antares]

It was ten years ago now Dane. A (relatively) small aerospace company a short walk from the Boeing sprawl. I did three stints of one week. I got introduced to the culture of starting early and heading off to the roadhouse at 2 PM. Those guys and gals treated me like royalty both at work and later each day at play. I sure miss them even now. I plannned on a massive road trip in 2017 for my 60th taking in Yellowstone and on to Renton, and then an internal flight to NOLA, but the driving distances cooled me off and we did Vegas and a long loop around the canyons instead. I've been to the USA about 7 or 8 times and every time I-Love-it!!!

e&oe ...

[dnic]

What a great experience Steve. Always great to be treated well by coworkers but it's a two way street and I bet bet you treated them good as well. Thanks for that little snapshot inside your world.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2019 14:09:43 GMT -6 antares said:

BTW Eddie, I now have all my hats hanging from the wall hangers like you. So obvious but I had never put two and two together and made four!

e&oe ...

HA! You know I thought to myself... Wonder how many more people will start hanging hats because of the video. LOL!

 I collect hats. I have some that are not out on the guitars. Wish I had more wall space. I would have all my Hats and guitars hanging.

EB

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2019 17:57:12 GMT -6 dnic said:

I was able to get very good sound in that little room Steve. It had a lot of glass and hard surfaces like rock and brick. But for whatever reason I was able to get it dialed in pretty well. Unless people just refused to keep their volume at a decent level. We always had the little "monitor talk" where I would explain the physics of sound pressure. It goes like this in a nut shell, if you want to sound good in the house we have to lower the stage/monitor volume. If the monitors are driving the house you will never get clean house sound. There's another little rabbit trail, no charge.

So Steve, sounds like you worked in the states at some point if I'm reading this right. And if you were in Washington then I live just 8 short hours south straight down I-5.

Is truley a pleasure to play with drummers that aren't beaters Eddie.

Dane, I played with this one drummer for a short time that would beat on the drums so hard he would have to change the drum skins after he played. He would (most of the time) brake the snare drum skin and even one of the toms. WOW! He always had extra skins so that he could change them out.

 I didn't know that there was a such a thing that someone could play the drums and not beat them, until I met that guy at my friends house. I was blown away at how well he played them.

 He was in the musicians union. He filled in or sat in with a lot of top bands all over the world. He was also a great guy! Not all puffed up or nor did he ever act like he was better than anyone else. To look at him you would never thought he was as great as he was a playing the drums. 

 That is one thing I can say... I have met a lot of really cool people in my time of playing. Also have met some that were not so cool. The cool ones were never in competition with anyone. They know there stuff and had nothing to prove.

EB

 

[antares]

Of course the other side of the coin is drummers that raise the game to another level. We've had some great drummers over the decades that know what to play and when (and the opposite too), but I'm thinking of the likes of Thomas Pridgen and John Theodore. Both of these Berkley graduate (?) guys played for the now seemingly defunct band called The Mars Volta. I saw them at The Roundhouse in Camden, north London quite a few years ago now. Dane would nod sagely at the prospect of holding the sound engineer's reins in a circular auditorium. The Roundhouse has its own house sound reinforcement team and acts are advised to give their own guys the night off. Sadly, TMV ignored that advice and the sound was pretty awful, but moreover it was so loud that I had a physical balance problem getting diwn the stairs on the way out of the auditorium and for approaching 24 hours thereafter which was pretty worrying at the time.

Anyway, I was struck by the fact that the guitarist and principal if somewhat visionary architect of The Mars Volta's catalogue, Omar Rodriguez Lopez, had his back to the audience all night which seemed a bit odd until the penny dropped that he was actually conducting the drummer Thomas Pridgen. The drumming had raised itself to a tour de force, and I realised that The Mars Volta were all about rhythms and complex ever changing ones with weird time signatures at that. I freely admit that TMV are a fairly extreme example of an acquired taste and a one off listen or isolated YouTube video would be a waste of time, but having invested a lot of patience and once under the skin they are keepers. A bit like some jazz really.

e&oe ...

[dnic]

Bottom line, everyone I play with is better than me. So I have to try to bring my best game every time.

[radrook]

Dec 21, 2019 10:22:01 GMT -6 @eagleblues said:

There are drummers that play the drums and ones that beat the drums. I have played with so many drummer over many years. In the I played with two that I have to say were players not beaters. They never got any louder than we were playing. The one drummer I played with with, when we first met, I had only my acoustic guitar and no amp. He wanted to play some music with me and my concern was I had no amp to keep up with him. He told me he would never get any louder than me.

 So, I had to hear this! This drummer was AWESOME!!! He could do all kind of things on them drums and not once did he get louder than my acoustic guitar. At that time I had never played with a drummer with that like of control! WOW! I Miss that guy!

 The other guy I played with used an electric drum set. He we was Awesome as well. The cool thing in that was that is could control how loud he was was through his amp or through the sound system. He was a great drummer equal to the other guy I was talking about. I sure miss them guys!

 The were both top of the line musicians.

 There really is no need to put drummers in cages if they know how to play and not beat the drums!

EB 

Added note. Have had the same problem with key board players as well wanting the key board turned up louder than everyone else in the band. To the point to where that is all you can hear.

That kind of considerate reasoning is what one expects from people of normal intelligence. After all, a band is a team effort and each instrument must be allowed to contribute to the overall sound.  This should be so obvious that it makes me wonder why anyone would want to be heard above everyone else in a music band? I mean, do they really believe that the audience appreciates having the rest of the music blotted out that way? When people pay to hear a group, they are paying to hear a group, not a one-man solo. Also, doesn't the person know that the other musicians will be annoyed by getting blotted out? How can that be possible? So what line of reasoning are these persons following that would justify that kind of thing? Or is it that they think they are not blotting out the rest of the music? Strange!