SSS situation

[chezvoz]

A couple of years ago I replaced my strat pups with a set of Lindy Fralin - I think they were called Classic Hot - pups. The 2 and 4 positions always seemed to have a lower output and not the lovely tone I'm used to getting in those positions.

I figured I must have not wired the middle pup correctly. And since I had the soldering iron hot today, I decided to change it. (Why so long, you ask? To get the pick guard off, you need to loosen or remove the neck. The neck has an overhanging fretboard). Now that I've changed it, I am certain that I have it wired out of phase. 

So why would the normal wiring cause the 2 & 4 to be lower volume and not a great tone?

Would love some ideas before I button it up.

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Since the Silver Anniversary Strat in 1979 we’ve been using five position switches and bringing the quack of 2 and 4 to the masses.

I think your set probably has a middle pickup which is the same polarity and wind of the neck and bridge pickups. Is it also possible that you installed the pickups in the wrong order? For example, you switched the bridge and middle pickups during installation inadvertently.

Check the magnets with an old-style compass..the bridge and neck pickups should have same magnetic polarity...most likely south up. The middle pickup should be opposite of the other two. If they aren’t you may have a mixup.

John

[chezvoz]

Thanks for the info, John. I'll have to look if the pups were labeled for position. The bridge is obvious because it has a base plate. But definitely possible to have switched the neck and middle.

I hope I still have my compass!

[antares]

I have what can only be described as a plastic c.o.c.ktail swizzle stick with a captive rotating magnet at one end painted red and blue. It was around a buck from China on eBay and has been an excellent investment.

If your compass is a good one, exercise restraint in how close you bring it to the pickup poles It shouldn't ruin either, but you wouldn't want to degrade something you may come to rely upon one day ...

e&oe...

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Sept 27, 2019 22:26:04 GMT -6 chezvoz said:

Thanks for the info, John. I'll have to look if the pups were labeled for position. The bridge is obvious because it has a base plate. But definitely possible to have switched the neck and middle.

I hope I still have my compass!

Also check the wiring on the switch. There is wiring that goes between the lugs and sometimes they get soldered in the wrong place.

Good advice on the compass...you won't have to get it very close to tell the polarity of the pickups.

John

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Sept 28, 2019 1:33:58 GMT -6 antares said:

I have what can only be described as a plastic c.o.c.ktail swizzle stick with a captive rotating magnet at one end painted red and blue. It was around a buck from China on eBay and has been an excellent investment.

If your compass is a good one, exercise restraint in how close you bring it to the pickup poles It shouldn't ruin either, but you wouldn't want to degrade something you may come to rely upon one day ...

e&oe...

Good point -- I have one of those little polarity checkers from Stew-Mac. I believe they are made by Shatten in Canada, and they are a decidedly low-tech tool that can save you hours of frustration.

John

[chezvoz]

I checked the polarity using a compass, and the middle is opposite the neck and bridge.

I don't see anything obvious on the switch, like a solder bridge or anything. When I installed the replacements, I copied the wiring that was already there.

I checked my wiring against Seymour Duncan's site and it matches. I also found a site that has an extra connection, marked in red below. What would that do?



Any ideas on what could cause the drop in out put in the 2 and 4 position when wired correctly, like it was originally?

[antares]

I think the extra wire just extends tone control to the bridge too? Well I did say think!

How pronounced is the perceived volume drop in positions 2 and 4? I've always found a slight drop in the in between positions but I think it's just partial phase cancellation. In turn I think that's caused by the relative positions of the two paralleled pickups. Having a reverse wound / reverse phase pickup in the middle is as I recall John said supposed to assist hum cancellation, but because the two coils are not "coincident" like a vanilla hummer, we get this effect. At this point I'm going to hold my hands up and pass you over to our pickup guru John for the expected corrections!

e&oe...

[dnic]

The little red jumper is to give tone adjustment for the bridge pup.

I've been thinking all along the same as Steve said the 2&4 positions are normally lower output, lower volume. The part I don't get is the bad tone chezvoz mentioned. I love the 2-4 pos on strats. That's what made me want to build the one I finally made.

[chezvoz]

I buttoned it up, and cleaned the fretboard - amazingly dirty, but hard to notice in the dim light of my music room. I stringed it up with a heavier strings - 11s with a heavy bottom, and played it.

I am missing the 2 and 4 tone. I think it must be these pups. The stock pickups definitely had that tone. I think I'll switch the old ones back in and see if I miss what the Fralin's have to offer.

I think I can probably get back whatever bite I might miss with a boost pedal.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

[dnic]

It makes no sense at all that the Fralins are at fault. Even the crappiest import strats have the quack. At least the ones I've encountered. How fried is the switch? I've seen overheated switches with loose solder tabs and bent contacts. Could be losing something in the translation through the switch. I am absolutely grasping at straws here.

[antares]

I'm guessing that "bad" *tone* is really just acknowledging that some of the sparkle evaporates with the lower perceived volume?

I recall reading somewhere that although there is improved hum cancellation with a reverse wound / reverse polarity middle pickup, it is delivered at the cost of reduced "quack". Maybe your old middle pickup was not RWRP which would imply more of that elusive *tone*? You should be able to establish the orientation of the old pickups from the lengths of the pickup pigtails, so maybe carry out the same magnet test on them as you did with the Fralins.

It may be that if the neck and bridge pickups are the same as the Lindy Fralins, but the middle pickup is not, you would only need to swap out the middle pickup to make a comparison.

Frustrating for you CV but Interesting for us!

e&oe...

[chezvoz]

I reinstalled the original pickups. They originals are not as hot and not quite as clear sounding and the Fralins.

Here's my thought: My first strat, a Japanese Squier and most other strats I've owned had bar magnets and were entry level guitars.

Is it possible that because the pickups did not have the clarity and sparkle of a better made pickup, the 2 and 4 positions sounded so much better because the phase differences removed some of the muddy mids?

[GuitarAttack Forum]

Oct 3, 2019 12:21:45 GMT -6 chezvoz said:

I reinstalled the original pickups. They originals are not as hot and not quite as clear sounding and the Fralins.

Here's my thought: My first strat, a Japanese Squier and most other strats I've owned had bar magnets and were entry level guitars.

Is it possible that because the pickups did not have the clarity and sparkle of a better made pickup, the 2 and 4 positions sounded so much better because the phase differences removed some of the muddy mids?

Good point, but I’m not sure....you should have a good 2/4 out of the Fralins.

Question: Did you buy them direct from Fralin or a legit dealer? The reason I ask is that I’ve run into a batch of fake Duncans (both HB and SC) from China and they sound awful. This goes along with the fake Grovers that have been popping up around Nashville.

John

[GuitarAttack Forum]

I saw yet another set of fake pickups this week...won't mention the brand. Looks like we are being flooded with them!

John