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Post by ehaataja on Mar 1, 2024 12:25:30 GMT -6
Ok, here's my masterpiece. After this, I'm probably going to submit it to an artistry forum and win some sort of award for my work. I tried to make solder joints circles or squares, with the exception of the jack and the pickups, where solder joints are either hidden or blatantly obvious. I am going to be working on the paint all weekend, so, re-assembly won't happen this weekend most likely. I think the capacitor is in the wrong spot for starters. Maybe that's the only problem??? If there is anything I missed, I will post updates.
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Post by ehaataja on Mar 1, 2024 13:57:52 GMT -6
Good call, Steve...looks like a stacked humbucker. I'm thinking the red wire is used for an out of phase tone with that five-way switch. On another note, I like the double-cut Les Paul in the first photo. John Oh yeah, I missed that comment last time I read it, but I was going back through this thread and noticed your comment on the Les Paul. It is not a Les Paul, but it might as well be. It's the same thing really. It's all the exact same parts. It is a 1982 Epiphone Spirit. I recently learned it is actually quite valuable. I had no idea. I got it for a couple hundred bucks at a pawn shop 20 some years ago.
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Post by antares on Mar 2, 2024 1:48:43 GMT -6
I would have to dig out my book (The History and Development of The American Guitar) that had a photograph of a double cut Epi which set me off on a lifelong preference for double cuts, but you stating it as being a "Spirit" really has rung a bell here. The one in the book was only a prototype and I think was never a production model, so that being the case it sounds as though yours could be a limited re-issue. Maybe I'm just ignorant of this guitar but I'm not surprised if it is indeed rare. Ignoring the stunning high-end 1980s Ibanez Artist series, the only other options have been Heritage Guitars and Gordon Smith Gemini and Graduate guitars to my knowledge. Yours is a cracking good guitar to my mind. TTIWWOP!
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Post by ehaataja on Mar 2, 2024 3:40:46 GMT -6
Thanks. I tried to dig into its history a little. I found out a few things. The Epiphone Spirit was a one-year build. It flopped, mainly because of poor marketing. The quality of the thing is comparable to any Les Paul. So, because it flopped and was a one-year build, now it's worth a couple grand. That's what they're asking for them. Typically, people end up paying about 1500 for them. There are a few almost identical to mine that sold recently for that amount. They continued to build the "Spirit" for a few more years, but because Epiphones were viewed as inferior to some people, they slapped the Gibson name on it instead. In fact, during one of their production runs, they simply covered up the name Epiphone and painted Gibson over it. It's kind of funny. You'll see this on the Gibson Spirit sometimes because of the paint over. The headstock will say "Gibson" at the top, and the truss rod cover will say "made by Gibson". I got a laugh out of that silly little redundancy the first time I saw it. Edit: added a pic of this Edit: They made the Epiphone version for less than a year. They switched to Gibson mid-year. Another Edit: now I read somewhere that the Epiphone was 1983 as well?? I'm very confused about this. I have a feeling it's one of those things where you ask 3 different people and get 3 different answers. So, I'm going to stop now before I get accused of making stuff up.
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Post by ehaataja on Mar 2, 2024 3:44:37 GMT -6
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Post by ehaataja on Mar 2, 2024 3:47:13 GMT -6
One of the volume knobs is wrong. I ordered a new one. They still make that knob.
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Post by dnic on Mar 2, 2024 10:34:56 GMT -6
I see a few things that don't look right. The cap should be on the center lug where it is on the tone but the other end should ground to the pot case ether vol or tone. If you use the volume pot case then both the tone and vol case should be grounded together.
Remove the ground from the right lug of the tone pot and add a ground to the right lug of the volume pot. No lugs on the tone pot should be grounded.
Run a wire from the left lug of the vol pot to the right lug of the tone pot.
You may still need to make sure there is no solder accidentally making contact with other terminals on the switch.
I'm not sure about both black and red wires from the neck and middle going to ground together. If the red wires are coil taps that would be grounding out half of those pups. Maybe try it with the red wires just taped up and not connected to anything. Since I haven't metered those pups I can't say for sure.
Hope that gets you there Eric.
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Post by ehaataja on Mar 2, 2024 13:15:08 GMT -6
Yeah, what happened with the cap is this: The solder joint broke, so I soldered it somewhere that looked like had a wire broken off.
Thanks, I'll try that, but I have painting to do first, so it will be a few days. I do have a multimeter, but I have only used it to check for continuity. I have never used it to check resistance levels, which is what I assume you would need me to do. I am sure I could learn how to do this online, but my priority is finishing the paint job right now. Can't do much with wet paint. So, when it comes time, I will try the simple solution(s) you have suggested, and hopefully that works.
So, if the red wires are indeed coil taps, where would those wires go? I mean if bypassing them serves the purpose great, but if sound quality is affected without them in use, I would prefer to use them. I will do some research on my own too.
I'll post what happens when I get it back together.
Edit: I may have forgot to mention this. When I polished and buffed a small section on the back due to an imperfection, it looked freaking amazing other than the fact that I polished through the clear coat, so I decided to paint it again with a double layer of clear coat so I could polish it really nice. I am aware that this super thick paint job might affect the tone a little bit, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
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Post by antares on Mar 2, 2024 18:02:48 GMT -6
Dane beat me to it with the capacitor not being "grounded". If the wires on the middle pickup were reversed with respect to the neck pickup, it may have been to introduce a degree of noise cancellation in the 2 and 4 switch positions.
It's sleepy time time here and my 'phone has stripped all the colours leaving a monotone screen, so I can't look at the diagram until tomorrow.
I appreciated the pictures of The Epi Spirit. Thank you.
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Post by GuitarAttack Forum on Mar 2, 2024 19:26:16 GMT -6
That Epi is a great looking guitar. Thanks for sharing the photos.
John
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Post by dnic on Mar 3, 2024 8:27:49 GMT -6
quick note about the coils taps. If indeed they are. Grounding the wire shuts off half of the pickup volume. Layman's terms here. Don't you experts get your knickers in a wad. So leaving them taped off gives you the most sound.
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Post by ehaataja on Mar 3, 2024 17:52:01 GMT -6
Thanks, if they are indeed coil taps and that works, taping them off sounds like it might be the best option. I'm going to wait till next weekend to re-assemble. I started to do it today, and I got a big fingerprint right on the front. It buffed out for the most part, but apparently clear coat takes a while to fully cure.
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Post by ehaataja on Mar 3, 2024 19:41:04 GMT -6
I see a few things that don't look right. The cap should be on the center lug where it is on the tone but the other end should ground to the pot case ether vol or tone. If you use the volume pot case then both the tone and vol case should be grounded together. Remove the ground from the right lug of the tone pot and add a ground to the right lug of the volume pot. No lugs on the tone pot should be grounded. Run a wire from the left lug of the vol pot to the right lug of the tone pot. You may still need to make sure there is no solder accidentally making contact with other terminals on the switch. I'm not sure about both black and red wires from the neck and middle going to ground together. If the red wires are coil taps that would be grounding out half of those pups. Maybe try it with the red wires just taped up and not connected to anything. Since I haven't metered those pups I can't say for sure. Hope that gets you there Eric. After a whole lot of searching, I finally found a wiring schematic for my particular arrangement of parts. I think this more or less reflects what you were telling me. The way the 5 position switch is wired in this diagram is quite a bit different than mine, but wiring the pickups is something I will worry about after I get the jack, tone, vol, and switch output wired correctly. Do you guys think I could use this as a guide with regards to everything except for the the way the pickups/5 pos. switch are wired?
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Post by antares on Mar 4, 2024 3:01:09 GMT -6
That's a so-called Superswitch- I've wired two S-types with them. You'd need to buy one, but first establish whether you have sufficient clearance around it in the wiring cavity, and that includes height since your present switch is not an Oak Grigsby / Fender type 5-way. I've read that the Superswitches have reliability concerns even from brand new, but that has not been my experience. If you look at one you'll see that they have squeezed each of the five tags into around half of the vanilla five-way switch wiper's travel, and that may be the reason for such concerns- engineering tolerances at the price point.
That Seymour Duncan schematic does not have provision for coil taps and has full four conductor wiring for the humbucker- hence the Superswitch. It has the same number of knobs and supposed types of pickups, but it's a way from where you are right now.
Unless I've missed it, it would help me at least to do a truth chart for the switch that you have because I feel like I'm still just speculating.
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Post by dnic on Mar 4, 2024 10:24:52 GMT -6
Seems like I've already saw this in this thread but I can't find it now. Even though it gets blurry when blown up it's the red wires that go to the switch and all the other s go to ground. The cap is different than "normal" as well. I would take it all apart and reproduce the diagram exactly.
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