Sound clip of My LP

[killemall1983]

HAHA, You guys are great.
Honestly, I dont see my guitars being A+ because thats what I always hear from the big guitar pros. So, It has really torn apart my self esteem and confidence about them. Thanks for the conversation guys, I would love to go on more, but it seems you guys dont feel that you want to/need to.

[dnic]

Ok OK, It's a hard sell I know but if you've got 27,000 you just come on over and you can have any two of my guitars, with cases and a life time warranty. I know I'm being easy here but times are tough and I need to move product.

Killemall, I did look up Shamray and watched your slide show while I was at it. I'm not seeing anything so special about Shamray they look like Jackson / Ibanez knock offs to me. And they are probably production built. You obviously really like these guitars and let me stress that I mean you no insult, but trying to compete price wise with production guitars is not possible. When building hundreds or thousands of guitars the hardware and lumber price breaks are incredible. And if this is an over seas company the labor is non existent. An apples to apples comparison is not possible. And yes they build some great sounding and playing guitars.

I'm afraid that sometimes I might come off sounding like a luthier snob, I try very hard not to do that. It sounds like these guys you know are truly full of themselves and maybe they have been to luthier school and have trained under big names or whatever but that shows me nothing about their own creativity. I really hate the cliquey in crowd kind of mentality in any vocation. Drives me nuts.

I own a 2000, something Nashville Deluxe mim Tele. It cost me 450. new at GC. The finish is perfect, the fret work is perfect, the neck is perfect. Over all customer satisfaction rating is 100% perfect. I did do some very minor set up work and it plays like dream. I did some cosmetic work on a friends LP, An American made Custom, with a sunburst finish. I believe those go for about 2400. He wanted me to dull or satinise the finish. The guitar still had orange peal that had been over looked though the finishing process at the Gibson factory. So long story short, when you are pumping out hundreds of guitars things get over looked and that is why one off guitars are appealing to some folks. The problem remains getting those people and we builders together.

The bottom line is, I will continue to build guitars until I drop regardless if I'm a big name or not and regardless if I'm making any money at it. Just means I don't get to quit my day job. And if I can design/ build some more jigs to speed up the process I could sell for a little less.

dane

[Deleted]

Any body can find fault in some one else work. I deal with that every day. I can find the flaws in store bought guitars as well.
I can remember a long time ago I was trying out to get me an agent. I had one guy tell me I should give it up. One guy out of 20 agents. I was 15 years old and was already making 750 to 1000 dollars a week in music. But it still bothered me. It bothered me for a long time.

I said that to say this if we take to heart every bad thing that someone tells us then we would never do anything. I know there in constructive criticism but a lot of that is destructive. I don't care how people put me down. I love my guitars just like I did when I built cars. You will always find people that will put you down no mater how good the work is.
I had a guy grill me on a car I built and when I asked him where his car was so I could look at it you know what he told me?... It's in the shop. So I told him so you are one of those guys. You have the money to take and have your car built and never even turn a screw driver on it and you are going to stand here and tell me whats wrong with mine! So I went on to tell him till you can drive up in a car that you built with your two hands you have no right to down talk my car the car I built in my driveway. I painted it, built the car from the ground up there is not one inch of this car that was done by some one else.
So is the way with guitar building if you are happy with it then be happy. There are not to many out there that can. Like I said any one can buy or pay someone to have a guitar built but let me see that same person build it them self and see what they think then.

So many people want to think there better than anyone else I stay away from them for the most part. I have found people like that will only make you feel bad about everything you do.
I am a seat of you pants kind of guy I do things the best that I can. It may not be the best that someone else can do but I do the best I can with what I have. I try and do thing as simple as I can. These days I don't have a lot of money and have to sometimes wait a long time just to get a few pars to start my next build. I know there is no way I can compare to them that have a lot more know how and the best tools that money can buy. But that wont keep me from building guitars. And if by chance if someone some day would like to buy on of my guitars that would be great. But I didn't get into the hobby to sell. I got in to it just for that a Hobby. Same thing when I built cars I didn't build them to sell them I loved to build them and some how ended up selling them. But selling was not my number one thing to do. It was the hobby and the craft of building. For me there is nothing like taking some wood and turning it into a awesome playing and sounding guitar.

[dnic]

Let me say again that your Les Paul is a nice sounding guitar. Just wanted to get back on track for at least one sentence.

I made a jog up to Medford Oregon, About 1.5 hrs from mi casa north.
To the local GC for a guitar case for the teak one. So I took my guitar along with to see how it would fit the case and maybe get some feed back, find out if they would bad mouth me the way the pros do killemall.

I check my guitar in at the door, the girl took down the name and serial #, well she looked for a serial #. I told her it didn't have one but if it did it would be 9. She looked at me kind of strange.

As I'm weaving my way through the amps and guitars I notice this older guy playing some riffs on a demo and as I pull my guitar out of the case he is walking by to hang up the Schecter he was playing. Now he's looking for another to try out and I say, would you mind playing this one and telling me what you think of it. First thing he said as he sat down and plugged in was he liked the Strat style jack plate so you can sit and play without tweaking the cord. Next he commented on the way the neck felt soft and not sticky. I didn't intend to give you the blow by blow from everyone that played my guitar today. After about half an hour the guy gives me his take on what he didn't like, the action on the treble side was a little high for his tastes. He loved the wood, the jumbo frets, the finish and feel, the pups. When he hit the first chord, an A he said wow.

By the time I left there we had migrated to the amp room and 5 GC employees had tried it out and they all said wow. They asked me how much and I said 2000. and nobody flinched. In fact they all agreed that you could not get that kind of quaility in a non custom instrument.

Now I know it may sound like I'm bragging and I may be just a little but I'm am very, very stoked to get that kind of response form a group of guitarists. One of the guys said the action was nice and low.


The guy that first played it has 18 electric guitars and has been a pro player years and he still sits in GC and plays all the guitars I guess trying to find one that will finally fulfill him. Hope he gets on my web site and gets in touch with me.

Killemall, I'm not saying that your guitars are not quality because people are putting you down. I'm saying you need to find people who are fun to be with. Your stuff is awesome bro.

dane

[Deleted]

So cool Dane. I wish I had the money I would buy one of your guitars. Maybe someday.

And yes the Less Paul sounds grate!

I have an old Less Paul custom I bought new a log time ago It cost me back then 610 with the case, strap, cable, and a hand full of pick. Boy those were the days! I love that guitar. My son tells me he will but in my casket when I die. He says no one deserves to play it. He remembers me playing that guitar and he know how much it means to me. For me it is one of the best playing guitars I have ever played. But right after I got it I took it to a guy that worked on guitars and had him do a set up on it. Oh this guy was building guitars for some well known people at that day and time. He told me he wished I would have come and seen him before buying that Less Paul that he could have build me a custom hand made guitar for less money. But what did I know I was only 16 at the time!

[killemall1983]

Dane,
I would never attempt to compete with production guitars. But actually, Shamray are not production guitars, they are acutally hand custom built, In Russia. I think they look 100X better than mine. Maybe its just the finishes they use.

I just have a hard time putting significant value to my guitars because of all the crap that happens during the build. The last 3 I have made went pretty smoothly, but normally, I always have something go wrong. One of my guitars once poped up on the ESP forum. It got responses like "Thats a nice piece of firewood" and "thats a guitar?" also, "That is an abomination to use Sperzels on that Trash", so see, even players have their negative opinions of them.

[dnic]

You can not, absolutely impossible, make everyone happy. If you look at Shamray and say they are 100x better then the killemall Kamikaze then so be it they are better then yours. But it gives you a bench mark and you will get there you've got talent. They already look that good to me and it may very well be the oil vs. lacquer finish that is the difference.

I will play devils advocate here a bit and ask some questions.

Have you asked the people who are critical of your work to play them and tell you what they don't like about the guitar?

Are the snobs talking about finish or function or are there mechanical problems?

What were the actual deformities the snobs were talking about on the ESP forum?

How do your guitars compare to builders like Shamray or Gibson? Are they as easy to play? easier? Does your guitar get in the way when you play it? That may sound like a strange question but that's how I evaluate a guitar. If I can pick it up and play it and nothing bothers me about it I like it.

Do you have pictures of the screw ups you'd be willing share? From what you've shared here already I'm just not seeing the cause of all this criticism.

As I wrote above one guy played my guitar and said the action was to high, then another said it was nice and low. Same guitar, who was right? So many things about guitars are subjective, the feel, the sound, looks, and the way it plays because of neck shape, fret size, fret board radius and string gauge.

You may well be doing the right thing by selling at lower prices and getting more of your product out to the public where it can be seen. As long as you can survive until you are discovered for the genius you are.

dane

[cknowles]

AMEN to what dnic says.

You need to get feedback from someone who actually plays your guitar. (And not that squeeling microphonic stuff you're getting from ESP! )


Chris

[Deleted]

I have found on the net there a lot of people that are just saying bad things about people and there work just so they can sound off. Most of them have a problem called ego. Most of them that's all they do is pick on others to make them selves feel better about them selves.
I be willing to bet most that have said bad tings to you have never even built a guitar. Or if they have where the proof of there stuff and if they do have so called proof is it the real thing and not taken form someone else?
I Don't trust everything I see on the net. Even eBay. I have been in chat rooms where people are always picking on others and saying some real bad stuff about some. The thing that gets me is they don't even know who they are really talking too. So I wouldn't put too much into what some have said.
And yes you can't please all the people but if you are selling your guitars then there must be someone that likes what they see and play. Just turn off all the bad things said.
I know negativity is hard to deal with. You can have 15 or 15000 positive things said and it only takes one negative to tear it all apart.

[killemall1983]

Well,
I have never played a Shamray, so I cant compare to that. But mine sure as heck play and sound better than the Gibsons ive played!!! I am not impressed with Gibson at all though. The lack of quality control is just sickening to me.

Sorry for ranting guys. I diddnt mean for this thread to go all off topic for a whole page

Things that go wrong are mainly just small things. I am SUPER careful when working with my wood, but something always happens. Like, I'll be sanding my neck or something, then I turn around and smack the tip of the headstock on a tool or something, and I have to repair it. Just stupid stuff like that. Or, they occasional tear out while routing. I HATE THAT!

Anyway, These 2 guitars that i posted are pretty close to flawless. The second one , the nut slot isnt as clean as I'd like, but i guess thats not anything to major.

Im surprised no ones asked me about using a Zero fret on both of them.

[irishrover]

love the sound of the LP. zero frets are great if someone can set one up the rightway. all of my classsicals have a zero fret. freted notes and open strums have pretty much the same ring. kep up the good work killemall!!!

ive sold a few of mine and got flammed and trasjed on varrious forums. so now unless i know you i will do no builds or repair work.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2009 22:55:28 GMT -6 killemall1983 said:

Well,
I have never played a Shamray, so I cant compare to that. But mine sure as heck play and sound better than the Gibsons ive played!!! I am not impressed with Gibson at all though. The lack of quality control is just sickening to me.

Hey! I just saw some of your stuff on You Tube let me ask you this..

What the heck are you worried about?

The guitars on there are just awesome! I think your on your way and you don't even see it. WOW! 19 and build guitars that look like that!

You are good at it keep it up!

Hey I did see on one of them that the screw on the neck pickup was not flush with the pickup ring. HE! HE! ;D

[irishrover]

killemall,just let me say this,just because your builds dont apeal to me dosnt mean that its not great work. im just set in my ways and d**n and thing else lol

[killemall1983]

Oh, dont worry Irish rover, I completely understand. Thanks!

I am worried EagleBlues because I am pretty inconsistent. I am just beginning to be consistent with about my last 10 guitars.

[irishrover]

funny thing is the guitars i deemed as rejects are the ones that sold for the biggest tag lol

one was a acoustiTele that i made the neck too short lol just moved the bridge down and it was fine but a funny looking lol and one of the others was a lespaul style body,single coils,fender superwide neck and a bigsby. i screwed up the order for the bigsby,pups,hardware neck. i wound up with a bigsby for flattop(had to route a section flat on the top) machines were 3+3 instead of 3 on a side, and the pups were way too hot. and the neck was a lefty. cut a new nut and put a old set of klusons on the headstock and put it together with 2 singls coils i found in a box lol. i hates how it sounded and played so i threw it on ebay with a starting bid of $250 to cover what i had in it. when the auction ended a week later it had 175 bids and it closed at $2100. somone liked it lol