|
Post by antares on Mar 21, 2021 3:39:20 GMT -6
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 9:49:08 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by dnic on Mar 21, 2021 14:59:54 GMT -6
I'm a French Canadian model.
|
|
|
Post by antares on Apr 7, 2021 14:31:36 GMT -6
Well I hope you're having a great day today Dane ;<D Well, Google calender advised me that should be your objective!
e&oe ...
|
|
|
Post by dnic on Apr 7, 2021 18:26:05 GMT -6
Having a great day is always my objective! However if you're not having fun you are probably doing it wrong.
|
|
|
Post by antares on Apr 9, 2021 2:35:25 GMT -6
Ha! I can't even read a calendar properly! Have a good one Dane ;<D
e&oe ...
|
|
|
Post by dnic on May 3, 2021 0:31:32 GMT -6
I just these pics on Instagram and said let the debate begin. Steve I'm thinking of you because we had this talk before. Couldn't help myself. Glued only one side
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 16:48:29 GMT -6
When I first started to make necks, I use to do one sided glue ups. But someone along the way maybe 2 someones. that I needed to put glue on both sides to make sure you had a good glue up. I have been doing two sides ever since. I guess as long one gets enough glue on one side it would work. But I have seen some that have starved the wood of glue even doing both sides.
I like to use glue on both sides on gluing fret boards to the neck. Seems a while back (years ago) I had some bad glue ups putting on the fret boards.
By looking at your picture, it looks like you have more then enough glue. Now that I have weeny rollers (LOL) I will start to use them to spread the glue around. I feel you can of an even coat of glue on.
EB
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 17:04:41 GMT -6
I also learned some time ago that if you let the glue sit for a few min. before putting the two halves together that the two pieces of wood don't slip as much when clamping together.
I have tired that, but must not have the technique down. It still move around.
I know when I did veneer on guitars, I would put glue on the veneer and let it dry for like 15 min. Then use an iron to attach the veneer. It worked out great! I half way thought about that in doing cloth. But it seems to work good by spreading the glue on and laying the fabric on.
Again I do think that glue up is another one of them things that is up to the person on how they do glue ups.
In, printing... I use to print up calender's and scratch pads. This one place I took them to for glue up had the huge room where they would clamp up what needed to have glue put on them. Once the clamped it all up they had a guy that came in and used a spray gun (like they use to paint cars) And sprayed on 3 coats of glue. Then they had people come in once the glue was dry and cut them apart.
I wondered over the years why manufactures of guitar don't spray on glue instead of rolling it on. Since they do so many glue up in a day.
EB
|
|
|
Post by antares on May 4, 2021 7:27:45 GMT -6
@eddie, the last company where I worked already had a well established routine for spraying adhesive when I started there in 1985. After masking taping the sheet all around the edges to the back of the sliding paint shop doors and spraying the adhesive, after a suitable period of "flash off", it took around half a dozen of the lads to carry a sprayed sheet of decor to the job, apply it and chase the bubbles out with spreaders, trying to minimise the inevitable decor stretching. Fair play though- that was contact adhesive of some sort. We used it to bond Tedlar (tm) and similar décor (trim) onto the Nomex (tm) cored fibre glass panels that everyone sits and looks at for hours during a flight! Interestingly, in their website archives, the British amplifier company Session Electronics (now Award Session) claims to have been the first out of the traps with that technique on their fabric covered amplifier cabinets, but I know better!
@dane, I'll not cavil with your results which demonstrably speak for themselves, and in any event- already semi forgotten by me is the fact that I was thinking of epoxy adhesives and not PVA or hide/fish glue or Titebond. I'm aware that at least some of the CA adhesives instruct the user to apply to one surface only, hence that remark. That said, I was tasked with weekly destructive testing on adhesive bonded samples, both those made specifically for the purpose of log entries, and the occasional bond failure investigation. We literally pulled them apart on a Hounsfield Tensometer which recorded the failure strain. I well remember those that failed because of a failure to follow the bonding process to the letter, and the resultant egg on the face of the operator, if not an actual disciplinary. In stark context though, that was aerospace work and totally unrelated if not actually inappropriate to what we are seeing here. In other words, you have the argument Dane.
I do recall that I've seen this one surface effect in one of your neck reset series where the fret board extension came away surprisingly easily using steam and then the knife, and with barely any grain splitting, and I reckon I can guess why that was. The adhesive was left largely on one surface. The important difference here is that the joint hadn't failed- only the neck had given in to incessant tension over the years. What I would view as the "failure" in that bonded joint was immaterial and worked very much in your favour, so everything in context then! As stated already- what works is what works and the proof of the pudding is in the eating. There's no compulsion to be swayed by the offerings of an armchair contributor on t'interweb as you know only too well.
Keep on doing what you do Dane because it is appreciated.
e&oe ...
|
|
|
Post by dnic on May 4, 2021 19:00:18 GMT -6
About glue, If I had a system in place where I was gluing things on a very regular basis. I would weenie roller both sides of everything. I've seen a lot of factory videos where they use a kind of roller dish for things like edge and brace gluing. In these cases only one side gets a thin layer of glue.
About fretboard removal, I'm not sure if Martin, Gibson, Guild, Takamine and what ever other companies I may have pulled necks off of. Not sure what process they all use to glue their neck in. So I'll chalk up that very clean removal to my extreme skill or at least good dose of luck. Myself on the regluing of a neck reset I glue both surfaces. At least that's the way I remember it.
|
|
|
Post by antares on May 5, 2021 3:11:47 GMT -6
On the rabbit trail and still about gluing ...
There was a time before my company bought comb spreaders for us when we used to make our own by chain drilling some stainless-steel sheet and shearing along the middle of the line of holes. Bonding down the grained stainless-steel worktops was always problematic because you could see every teensy-tiny rippled imperfection. Clamping with blocks was a non-starter because all you achieved was outlines of the blocks. Some guys would cut a custom shaped board slightly smaller than the job and load it up with several hundredweight of steel blocks. The stainless-steel would have only been 22 SWG or perhaps 24. I developed my own way which was to spread that adhesive out within a micron of its life using a comb spreader. It wound up looking like a swirly pattern of thin adhesive lines on bare substrate. Both surfaces bonded and with "Scrim" cloth sandwiched in between. Adhesive was "pressured" onto both faces by the intense repeated combing out action, and both glued surfaces tacking onto the thin scrim cloth which was a lot like women's stockings. Scrim cloth was part of the bonding procedure that many guys ignored which brings me back to those destructive tests! I used absolutely no weights nor any clamps at all. Once married up, the "sticktion" (if I can call it that- let"s call it "tack"?) held it fine, and there was never a single witness of any ripples or bubbles. any trapped air was dissipated between the lines of adhesive. It worked really well and other guys usd to ask me how I achieved such perfect results. I would tell them but I guess in disbelief they wouldn't use my technique. I used to abrade the back of the stainless-steel with an air powered vibro, and for some stupid reason I got into the habit of "signing" the abraded side of the stainless-steel with the word "Wooly" using that tool. No point in explaining that! One day, when I peeled of the protective plastic surface film, you could clearly read "Wooly" as a flipped mirror image! I have no idea how that happened but it's as though something had occurred at a molecular level that showed through right to the other surface? I had to remove the sheet and rework the job. There must be dozens of airplanes flying around with Wooly written on the underside of the worktops! It used to amuse me to think of some service guy overhauling the galleys during a refurbishment, and finding Wooly written on the back of the worktops when they pulled them off, but I never did that again!
After I changed to quality assurance, I loathed being an inspector- I hated telling giuys that their work was unacceptable, but it meant that no one could flannel me with BS at work and I had far more respect from the guys than those of my colleagues who had no production background.
e&oe ...
|
|
|
Post by dnic on May 5, 2021 7:15:48 GMT -6
I get it Steve. Sounds insanely painstaking. I've made a lot of Formica tops BITD. Had a 4x12' on site lamination go horribly wrong. Of course I shouldn't have not tried to do it alone. But I did it alone the second time and it worked. You may have noticed the noticed the notched trowel in the pics. Been using those for glue application for years. I actually had two much glue on this joint cause all the groves just immediately flowed back together.
Don't think I mentioned it anywhere, that's the center block for my 335.
|
|
|
Post by antares on May 5, 2021 9:18:04 GMT -6
All it is Dane, is the hyper regulation that is mandatory in aerospace work because you are dealing with folks' lives. As an inspector, I used to allow leeway for some guys- the honest ones who never tried to hide anything, but I was resolute about water system leaks and electrical installations. Rabbit hole or not, it's irrelevant to guitar work, but I offer it not to convince anyone that it's my way or the highway, rather that folks can filter out whatever they like, but they just may read something that makes them think "Hey, I never thought of that before", and certainly I have learned lots from others on here and elsewhere. What goes around comes around huh?
e&oe ...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 10:17:49 GMT -6
Don't think I mentioned it anywhere, that's the center block for my 335. Wow! That looks like a hefty center! How thick is that? What are you building? What are you doing? LOL! Sorry I had to! EB
|
|