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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 15:46:47 GMT -6
Here is something I have wondered on.
I am in this guitar wiring group on FB. there seems to be a lot of people in that group that must have a degree in electronics. A lot of them really get into all the since and physics of how things work and really in my opinion make things sound so hard to do.
So, on top of that there are a lot of people that have all these configurations on how they want their guitars wired up. WOW there are a lot of them.
But I wonder why? Why do so many people just have to go into all the since and physics ( I may add they really don't solve anything) and why are so many people wanting to add so many switches that it would take you a year or more to figure it all out, if you where playing that guitar.
One guy put 4 push, push pots (not push pulls) and 7 mini toggle switches. This is just one guitar. You should see some of the confusing things people are doing. WOW!
So, I wonder Why? Why do people find the need in doing all of this?
I mean I can understand people wanting to do something different, but it sure seem confusing to me... I guess I am just a simple minded guy that likes to play his guitar/s and have fun. I don't understand the need of all of these switches.
Another one is... This guy had asked the question about all the noise he was getting in his guitar after putting in some new pickups and input switch.
One of these guys with a degree in electronics posted about the since and physics of what could be causing it and even went into shielding and a bunch of other things without really solving anything. The guy with the guitar even said that he was more confused now than he ever was.
So I told the guy to switch the wires around on the input jack. He did problem solved.
I could not help but wonder again... Why, Why do people find the need to post and confuse others for something that could be easily fixed?
John once told me a long time ago..."guitars are not rocket since" That has stuck with me all of these years. He is right. So why do so many want to make it rocket since? LOL!
EB
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Post by antares on Nov 10, 2019 17:07:36 GMT -6
Spot on Eddie. When I wired up my Tele with Joe Barden pickups, I eMailed Bardens querying something regarding series wiring and a four-way switch. Joe Barden replied that series wiring just wasn't necessary with his pickups. I followed his advice and stuck to vanilla Tele wiring and of course he was right.
e&oe ...
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Wiring
Nov 12, 2019 1:06:37 GMT -6
Post by dnic on Nov 12, 2019 1:06:37 GMT -6
Steve, I like series/parallel wiring it gives a single coil sound without having the hum. Just saying
Eddie, I've kind of had this philosophy develop over the last many years. It goes like this "if your not having fun you're doing it wrong". Which is my cryptic way of saying "why put up with crap you don't have to put up with". Now you can't apply this to your daily responsibilities like jobs, bills and you know grown up stuff. But when playing in a band becomes work well then I would seriously consider walking away. So I would say the same could apply to a forum where everyone seems to be wanna be rocket scientists. Again just saying. Enough stress in life I don't need stress in my fun. Says the guy that repairs guitars for fun...
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Post by antares on Nov 12, 2019 2:51:32 GMT -6
I like series too Dane. I have those two Strats wired with the Mike Richardson schematic that has the facility of any series configuration available on a single push-push Yamaha switch and they're great. Also my "Esquire" (the one with the 1955-ish bridge pup and the concealed neck pup) has a four-way with available series option and that too is awesome. At this point I have to issue John with another apology for not getting a soundfile together. Mea culpa.
Eddie, I think I prefer that MR wiring with single coils on a Strat to spoiling the Strat look with hummers, but that's purely subjective. It does avoid the need for any removal of timber. Folks don't believe you don't have a battery on board somewhere!
e&oe ...
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Wiring
Nov 12, 2019 8:34:14 GMT -6
Post by dnic on Nov 12, 2019 8:34:14 GMT -6
Hey Steve I found the MR wiring mod on guitarnuts2 but the picture is blurred out. Any chance you could post it here? It sounds like something I might like to try. If not I could probably find it elsewhere just thought others here might be interested.
Thanks in advance
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Wiring
Nov 12, 2019 10:40:40 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 10:40:40 GMT -6
Hey Steve I found the MR wiring mod on guitarnuts2 but the picture is blurred out. Any chance you could post it here? It sounds like something I might like to try. If not I could probably find it elsewhere just thought others here might be interested. Thanks in advance Steve that would be a good idea! Post it! PLEASE!!!
EB
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Post by antares on Nov 12, 2019 13:37:10 GMT -6
I shall see what I have. It might take firing up the desktop, and I may have it on paper here somewhere with better resolution. Did you see it on the "Archived Guitarnuts" thread? I know it's dotted here and there around that forum, so I don't have an idea of what you mean by blurred out. I supplied quite a few of those archived images on that thread.
A few of words of warning: I wired the two guitars about two years apart, and with the time lapse, I made the same error twice in regarding the way the pots were depicted. In short- I wired them as if I was looking at them from above rather than below (or maybe vice-versa). The other thing is that the tone pots interact with each other, occasionally with surprising responses. Also- I didn't bother with the phase switch. There's enough options on there as it is!
I went over it again and again to confirm the circuit before I began because some folks couldn't get it to work. It is correct and it does work. Mike R. says it works better with single coils. He's a smart guy and I'd take his word anytime. There are some really clued-up folks on that forum. A great gang by and large.
I suppose you've noticed that the circuit foregoes the mid pickup at position 3 in favour of a Tele like neck and bridge combo? Personally I prefer that to vanilla Strat. The push-push switch (easier to buy a push-pull but not so easy to deploy on Strat knobs) is so intuitive in the way it acts as a series parallel in the middle three positions. All you need to remember is positions 1 and 5 (as in which one is all 3 in series and which one is all 3 in parallel.)
e&oe ...
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Post by antares on Nov 12, 2019 13:56:29 GMT -6
OK here goes. I think I know which one you are referring to as blurred. If these are not sufficient then I'll try to dig out my hard copy. i.postimg.cc/JhjLtZ5C/MR-Strat-1.pngi.postimg.cc/Bv2js88X/MR-Strat-2.pngMike did create another circuit that preserved the classic Strat switch positions, but it compromised the elegance of the push-push switch and reduced the number of options too. So far as I'm aware, that circuit has been lost, if not in the Photochucket fiasco, then certainly in the close down of the original Guitarnutz website after some idiot hacked it. I used to have a copy and probably still do on one of my old fixed disks ... Edit: they appear blurred to me too, but they are sharp on my hosting page. Strange. I'll keep looking. I've edited the links to point where they are hosted. Try that too and see if it works. e&oe ...
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Wiring
Nov 12, 2019 19:43:04 GMT -6
Post by dnic on Nov 12, 2019 19:43:04 GMT -6
Thanks a lot Steve this looks like something I'd like to try out. I can see what you have posted just fine just not used to this type of diagram. I use the ones like SD has with the pictures of the parts but if I can't figure this type out I'll let you know and you can explain it to me.
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Post by antares on Nov 13, 2019 2:04:30 GMT -6
I guess it's because I have held a radio ham's license since 1983 that I'm used to the various crude illustrations and thumbsketches on the back of a cigarette packet that abound. Oddly enough, it's frequently vehicle manufacturer's circuit diagrams that cause me to scratch my head, and that is because they invariably don't acknowledge "ground" as being towards the bottom of the diagram.
I think that MR circuit would benefit from not having a reverse wound reverse polarity pickup in the middle?
In addition to a pot with a piggy back switch, you need a so-called SuperSwitch and that requires a full depth Strat body. They won't fit in an Asean cheapo thin job. It takes quite a while to hook up but it's worth the effort. I wouldn't have done it twice otherwise. You could just put a toggle switch in somewhere to avoid a piggy back, but that defeats the purpose of keeping the stock appearance.
e&oe ...
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Post by antares on Nov 13, 2019 2:15:06 GMT -6
I've just been reviewing that diagram and while it still makes sense to me, I can see why it would puzzle someone at first glance.
Start with the SuperSwitch before you and compare to Mike's sketch. Connect the letters in circles together. The middle pickup is connected across those terminals on the left. B- and N+ etc refers to Bridge "ground" and neck "hot" etc. It should fall into place. I have no desire to waste folks' time in struggling with this circuit, so ANY query just fire away, and in deference to Eddie may I suggest a new thread?
e&oe ...
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Post by antares on Nov 13, 2019 3:41:24 GMT -6
And this sprung to mind too: because of the way the neck tone pot is wired, I didn't connect the pot chassis to the pickguard screening. Actually I cut the screen right around both tone pots, but looking at it again it's probably only affecting the one pot. I suspect that those who couldn't achieve success with this circuit didn't do that. Of course it's there all the time if you read the sketch literally, but I didn't spot it- I anticipated it which came out of laboriously checking the wiring through and through before starting. I left the volume pot chassis connected to the screen otherwise the shielding would have been ineffective.
If you do take time to trace and analyse the circuit in every switch combination, you'll appreciate how clever it is in its topography. I could never have come up with it, indeed I spent many long evenings gazing at sketches of my own trying to achieve ten tones from a push-push switch and a five way switch. I could only ever manage nine!
The all-three-in-series position does sacrifice a little top end but any hummer does that, and this wiring does approach a similar response through the amp.
e&oe ...
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Wiring
Nov 13, 2019 8:27:18 GMT -6
Post by dnic on Nov 13, 2019 8:27:18 GMT -6
I'll revisit this with the super switch in mind. I was thinking regular five way and that confused me.
I was thinking new thread as well when I asked about the drawing but then looked at the name of the thread and thought what the heck. but you're right of course we should continue elsewhere.
I don't see me getting to this very soon oh and my middle pick up is reverse wound so with that and the super switch needed it will be a while. I may just get a whole different set up and work that over then swap it out.
Thanks for all the info Steve.
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Wiring
Nov 13, 2019 10:46:23 GMT -6
dnic likes this
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 10:46:23 GMT -6
No need to make another thread. LOL!
But this is kind of what I am talking about. I know it's cool to come up with stuff. For me I just don't know how often I would use a guitar like this. I don't care for modeling amps little lone a guitar with too many things going on with it.
Some time ago I built a super Start. It had all the switches that one could want on a Start. But it did not have a blade 5 way on it just switches. I wound up selling it to a guy that played the guitar out a few times then out of the blue he called me and wanted to know if I would buy it back from him.
I asked him why are you wanting to sell it? he told me that it was more guitar than he needed, that the switching was confusing to him and that he wants a guitar that is more simple to use. So I worked out a trade for another Stat that I had that was more to his liking.
I tried to sell that super start and could not. So I would up putting it back to a Regular Start using a 5 way switch. Sold the guitar right away.
Remember the Guitar Attack guitar? It has an on board effects in it. 5 effects. I use 2 of them. One of the effects is a mid boost with a lot of over drive. Too much for me. LOL! It has 3 volumes and no tone controls. It is a beast of a guitar. You can blend the pickups anyway you want them. I can get so many sounds/tones from that guitar that are to die for. But... Once I get a sound or tone that I like I find that is were I keep it. The same holds true on all my guitars. I am not a big switch flipper kind of person. I like to plug in, get my sound and play. This is one reason I gave up pedals many years ago. Got so tired of messing with it. LOL!
Now, please don't get me wrong. There was a time I loved this kind of thing. I at one time had all kinds of pedals and even owned a few modeling amps. So I do understand the need or wanting to try things out. But for me these days I just want simple.
Today On FB I seen yet another diagram that to me one would need an electronics degree to figure out what the heck was going on. It not only had a bunch of switches with push pulls but had transistors and tone caps, and some other things going on with it... So I just had to ask WHY?
I wish people would post videos of their creations and let people hear what the guitar sounds like and go through all of the switching.
I once opened up a BB King Lucile once. I seen all of the wires in it and put the cove back on. LOL! What a mess of wires. HA!
EB
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Post by antares on Nov 13, 2019 11:28:58 GMT -6
You've got me there Eddie. A video is long overdue. Ummm ... Help!!!
Dane I think I may have been wrong about the RWRP middle pickup. It stands to reason that you would like the combos to be hum cancelling. I think I may have my wires crossed on that one with another forgotten scheme in my mind. The Superswitch is relatively costly. Mike also posted a circuit to use the Yamaha version of the Superswitch which is smaller. It's on the Guitarnuts2 forum and I have that layout somewhere too.
Eddie, the point about this one is that it's not at all confusing. It's actually quite intuitive in use. I just have to remember whether position 1 and position 5 are all 3 in parallel or series (and I can't- I go by ear at first and then I remember for a bit but soon forget!) It's just switch up or down and the middle three positions just go from parallel to series when you throw that switch.
I did wire up a Strat once with push-pulls, a fancy rotary switch which gave all possible sounds on a Seymour Duncan JB bridge hummer and goodness knows what else. It was a beast and it was confusing. Many of the so-called 36-odd "tones" were so similar that you could be forgiven for thinking they were duplicates. It lasted barely a week and was ripped out. I learned the hard way what you knew instinctively Eddie.
If I'm honest, I'm more struck by the boost it gives than the *tone* palette. The tone controls can be "surprising"- almost "phasey" occasionally, it's difficult to describe. I'd really hate to lead anyone up the garden path with undue effort that may get abandoned in frustration, so perhaps it's best left on the shelf filed under "Interesting", but for me it's desirable apart from the effort involved.
e&oe ...
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