Intonation headaches..

[Frethand101]

Hey all, great site.. I found a few intonation posts but they didn't seem to fit my dilemma so I figured I'd post a thread to see if anyone out there can relate, suggest or maybe advice from experience..

  I bought a used 2011 Strat Special (mint condition) back in 2014 for a great price due to bungled action/intonation, the previous owner was a novice player & didn't give me any details so I could only assume the why & how of the situation.. Anyhow, after I bought it I gave it a "quick setup" just so I could spent a few afternoons playing around on it to get a feel for it & figure out what this guitar might possibly do for me so I could then decide what I needed to do for it.. Basically put, should I turn a profit, trade it in on something at the local music shops or keep her as my own..  

 Being a near-new Strat there wasn't much problem with the general setup preparations.. The truss rod is set for a good position as far as bow goes & although I do have a teeny bit of buzz I've managed to get her to play pretty good as far as action goes.. Based on the string nut to the 12th fret wire measurement (octave harmonic being perfect center) I set all the saddles back to the standard "stair-step" starting point in preparation for the intonation process.. The intonation process overall has been a success with the only problem area being any double stops requiring the B string.. I've tested each pair of strings from the low E to G string with 5-chords (power chords), double stops, major 3rd's/4th's & they all sound perfect.. The problem is with the B string.. The 5 chord played using the G & B string sounds great & the G & B string combination used in the open D-Major chord sounds great too, but any double stops sound noticeably off.. For anyone that doesn't know, the double stops I'm referring to are the small two string chords that are played when you barre both strings on the same fret.. In this case it's the G & B strings, whenever I play them together open or in any fretted position they sound bad & of course this leaves me in the dark regarding my high E as well.. I'm pretty sure it's okay but I can't be sure until I figure out what reference notes I need to check to workout & finalize my B string..

  I can say that when I detune my B string a few cents it corrects the double stops but then everything that was sounding good before goes to crap.. I can also confirm that it's not the G string, like I said, all my string pairs up to the B sound great as pairs & as a group in chords involving all four strings.. Another thing that haunts me is that since I started playing in '85 I've always heard everyone from Luthiers to In-store Servi Dept's gripe or crack jokes about "the B-string" being a pain during setup/tuning/intonation/etc..

Thx in advance & I'll keep an eye peeled for any useful info or feedback..    

[dnic]

I don't have time right now to go into the whole process but if the intonation, open string in tune and 12th fret in tune. Then try detuning the G string down that couple cents and see what happens. Past that I need more time.

[Deleted]

More times than not it is the "G" string that give one the most problems. There are a few things that can cause a guitar not to go into intonation.
First you need a good tuner. The kind you plug into. Not the clip on kind.
Put on new strings.
all strings intonation start with the sting being in tune. Open string then closed at the 12th fret. The two notes must be as close as one can get them. It does take some doing on some guitars. But it can be done.
By moving the saddles, at the bridge one way or the other you can change the strings intonation. Remember to re tune the string every time you move the saddles.
Do this on every string.

I like to file the nut to where the slots for the strings are angled back toward the tuners. There are times when the nut is too flat or they can have an angle to them that is making the string play off the back of the nut and not the front.

Any way, once you get it into intonation it should be playing like it should. Some guitars are harder that others, but I have not found one yet that I can't get it into the correct intonation.
EB

[Deleted]

OH.. as far as harmonics go... You will never get it into intonation using harmonics. If your open and closed note are dead on so will the harmonic. Get the open and closed notes. Plus, depending on how you pluck for the harmonic, will be different + or -. Using harmonics to put a guitar into intonation is not the way to go.

I know some will argue that point. But, I use to try the harmonic thing in the beginning, and drove me nuts. Until someone one told me to forget the harmonics and tune to open and closed notes.
Ever since then I can set intonation on guitars all day long.
EB

[Frethand101]

  Thanks for the feedback guys, I spent this week messing with it & although it still seems a tad off at times it's closer than it was.. I think the problem was with the actual relative tuning frets, I wasn't paying any attention to them during the intonation process & when I added them to the equation I found them to be off enough to screw up any chance of accurate tuning.. After a slight tweak to each saddle I managed to achieve a perfect open, 5th harm, 12th harm & fretted 12th for each string, with all those points lined up the tuning result has been much closer.. After doing this I checked everything again & noticed that all notes at the 5th fret were also dead on but the 4th fret on the G string is sharp by about one cent which is where I'm guessing all my problems are coming from.. Being off at the G strings 4th fret would definitely give a false tuning for the B string when using relative tuning so I've been brain storming that issue trying to figure out how compensate without losing my open & 12th fret G strings intonation.. I have a spare guitar that I'm thinking about experimenting with this a bit more when I get some spare time..

  It just seems odd to me that for as important as relative tuning is to stringed instruments the intonation process offered by pretty much everyone doesn't give any account or calculation for these crucial positions on the fretboard.. Unfortunately, the guy that serviced my guitars since '85 passed away in '04 & it's been next to impossible trying to find a good local tech/luthier to fill his shoes ever since.. No matter what I took to him it always came back perfect, every string combination you could play sounded perfect..